You need to have that bit of ambition, that desire to have this record for yourself, so to speak. Because it's quite exhausting. We fly for about 11 hours, and the return trip is no joke either. Then you don't get home and finish until the next morning. So it's a 24-hour operation.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the cosmos of paragliding.
Today with Konrad Görck and Lucian Haas on the mic.
Brazil has increasingly become the dream destination for cross-country flight records among paragliders in recent years. Every autumn, pilots from all over the world pilgrimage to the Sertão, the dry northeast of the country. There, from October to early November, under good thermal conditions, the southeast trade wind blows strongly from the coast into the interior. Anyone who manages to gain altitude in the first thermals of the day early in the morning and then stays in the air until just before sunset will get far just by the wind shift alone.
One person who has been infected by the Brazilian record-flight virus is Konrad Görck. The 40-year-old from near Goslar in the Harz mountains has traveled to the Sertão several times over the past ten years. In 2016, he set a German record there with 446 kilometers. The flight could have even been counted as a world record for a destination flight if Konrad hadn't made a small mistake when providing the relevant coordinates. He tells the story of how that happened in this podcast.
Of course, he also provides further insight into the fascination, the emotions, but also the difficulties associated with such extremely long cross-country flights. And how ambition continues to drive him. Because Konrad has already lost his German cross-country flight record since the autumn of 2019. But guess where he wants to go again in October 2020. Konrad Görck is not only an enthusiastic cross-country pilot, but also a farmer with a second foothold in the paraglider business. He is known in the scene as the owner of the Aircross brand, as well as the general importer of Soul and Flymaster in Germany. His XContest GmbH is now one of the largest paraglider check centers in the industry.
That also includes a perfectly organized line warehouse, from which he now supplies many other check centers all over the world with paraglider lines for repairs.
Konrad, do you still remember your first cross-country flight? Like, where and when was it?
Yes, I remember that very well. That was in 1999 in Australia. I was basically flying under a thunderstorm cloud, but thank God it hadn't started raining yet. And it was with a Compact, which I also had for my training in '97. I managed to go 16 kilometers. I was in Australia for half a year after graduating high school, because I had already been there in 11th grade. I was out and about with my host parents at the time, and they picked me up again. So that was an insane experience. Those 16 kilometers, that was...
So wow, proud, a huge distance for you back then?
Yes, that was insane. It was incredible. I mean, my uncle, who told me how I got into flying, had already told me that he once flew 16 kilometers. But with the gliders of that time, that was already quite an achievement.
Could you have ever dreamed back then that you'd one day fly well over 400 kilometers?
Not at all. I honestly couldn't have imagined that back then.
Now you've already achieved that. But first, a question to take it a step further. What do you think is even possible with a paraglider? I mean, in terms of kilometers, where do you see it—is there some kind of limit where you'd say it's actually impossible to go further?
Right now, I think 600 kilometers is possible. The world record has been pushed up quite a bit and is already basically scraping against that 600-kilometer mark. Beyond that, I think it's difficult because there's simply not enough time left in the day, so to speak. But it can be done. It can still do quite a bit. Just as I couldn't have imagined it back then, we don't know what things will be like in 20 years. But from today's perspective, I think that's where it ends in terms of the time you have available in a day at around 600 kilometers.
You completed all your longest cross-country flights in Brazil, but you also have a special relationship with that country outside of flying. Why is that?
Well, for one thing, I have family through my father, but I didn't know that back then at all. But I was at an agricultural research institute and was supposed to find something out about sugarcane, and then, yeah, I was there in Brazil for four months, and the thing was, somehow nobody spoke English. I only found that out when I flew down there. And yeah, so I had to learn Portuguese. And when I was there a bit later at a paraglider competition, I met my wife. And we've been married for almost eleven years now, and we speak Portuguese in the family, and because of that, we have very close contact with Brazil. So my parents-in-law, brother-in-law, and so on live in Brazil.
So that means you're in Brazil every now and then, alone, for family reasons too. So it's not just about flying for you, that you fly there, but is the family always involved as well?
Yeah, we try to do that once or twice a year. Now my eldest daughter is already in second grade, so we're tied to the school holidays. That makes the whole thing a bit more difficult. But we were there again over Christmas and New Year's. And with my parents-in-law and brother-in-law, we rented a house on the coast. But when I'm in the northeast for flying—specifically for cross-country—I fly there alone. Because that's, yeah, it's incredibly far from where my wife is from. So my wife comes from Governador Valadares. That's certainly known to one or another paraglider pilot, because it's a really great area for flying and competition flying. But there's relatively little wind there.
And in the northeast, where we fly those long distances, that happens mainly because of the tailwind.
Let's talk about the autumn of 2016. Back then, I believe you flew from Quijada with a B-glider, the Aircross U-Cruise. 446 kilometers. You flew 446 kilometers. That was a German record. And how deeply did that flight sear itself into your memory?
So that was, that was incredible. The flight released such emotions. I could, I mean, I was laughing and crying at the same time during the flight. It was unbelievable. I mean, I had also set a goal for myself as a world record. I think it was 423 kilometers back then. And I flew past that point too and thought it might even be a world record. But unfortunately, as you also wrote in your blog, I somehow flew past it because of navigation. But it was enormous. I was traveling there with friends from Portugal. And they were all flying two-liners and were already saying, it's incredible that I can keep up with them, over and over again.
And of course, I always flew very aggressively and sometimes was maybe just on the verge of stalling. But it was an incredible feeling. I mean, it's always an incredible feeling when you're out there all day using the conditions. But when you cover a distance like that and land into that evening sun. And specifically on that flight, I was right on the border between the states of Piauí and Maranhão. It starts getting a bit Amazonas-like, so more with palms and greenery. And the people there were somehow different too. There were like 100 people standing around me at landing. And two women pressed the baby into my hands and took a photo with me and the baby, as if I had somehow come from Mars.
I saw a video of you once. You're giving a lecture about that flight—the flight itself. And you get to the scene where you describe it, and you actually start tearing up again during the lecture. Simply because you can tell how much that whole story moved you. Is that something you'd say was actually the flight of your life?
So, up until today, I'd almost say yes. Even though I've flown a bit further since then. But it was the first time I'd experienced something like that. And it was, yeah, it was... yeah. Just overwhelming. I wouldn't have thought it was even possible. I had great conditions that day. And after two hours, I already had 110 kilometers on the clock.
And yeah, in that sense, it's definitely one of the craziest flights. But there are, I don't know, in these two, twenty-three years that I've been flying now, also some flights that didn't go that far but are also incredibly special. But this one certainly ranks among the top.
Well, you just mentioned that there was a bit of a mishap involved with the flight. Because you thought you had flown a world record for a destination flight. You flew exactly over the point you had saved in your GPS. But you only found out afterwards, no, you actually flew past the point you had registered. What was the reason for that? What happened there? Yes,
that's maybe a bit of a general problem for me with the preparation. I'm never really... I mean, I could definitely be much more meticulous. I looked up a point three weeks before we flew to Brazil. And then, on the FAI website, there was only a certain format. But in my GPS, there was a different format. Or rather, I could have adjusted the format to match the FAI website,
but I wasn't a hundred percent sure if it was the same thing, because there are also two different formats with degrees, minutes, and seconds. And then I visited another website and saw that you can convert it from—what was it called anyway, UTM, I think. Anyway, exactly, from UTM to degrees, minutes, and seconds. And during this conversion, I must have made some kind of mistake. Anyway, I wrote the point in degrees, minutes, and seconds on the slip for the sports witness. I could have just written it down exactly as I had it in my GPS device. Then everything would have been fine. But I had it one way on the slip and another way on the GPS.
And so, I flew past this virtual circle that I should have hit by about 800 meters, I think. I could have easily flown over to it, of course. I was 2,000 meters up. And I remember exactly, when I was so to speak over my world record point, I thought, what am I supposed to do now? You need landing markers, but there aren't any here. And I found that a bit strange because I had actually picked out a point on the road. And there was no road there. It was a kilometer further north. And yeah, I was already feeling a bit unsure. But oh well, I didn't really think much more about it because my emotions had just overwhelmed me. And it was also crazy that I had caught up with two of my colleagues just 50, 60 kilometers before.
And we flew together until kilometer 160. And then, at the very end, after six or seven hours of flying, we sort of met in the air again. That was also incredible. And then we flew about another 20 kilometers together.
So you were under the impression for a few days, or maybe even a few weeks, that you had this world record. And then you get an email saying, "Hey, something's not right." How big was the disappointment back then?
Well, that was on the first day—I sent that off relatively soon. And Dieter Münchmeier from the DAV had already told me, "Oh, there are some difficulties, but maybe we can make it work" or something like that. He hadn't told me one hundred percent yet that it couldn't be recognized. But there was already a very big disappointment there. But then everyone said, "Man, that doesn't matter right now. No one can take the flight away from you." And after about a day, I kind of didn't care as much, so to speak. I mean, if the flight did the round, but that wasn't that important to me. For me, it was just an incredible experience and no one could take that away from me anymore.
Well, what you still had, at least at first, was that German record, where you said you managed 446 kilometers over three turning points. But this year, you lost that German record again. And there was even this interesting battle with your flying buddy Maurice Knurr. In mid-October, Maurice managed to go 464 kilometers, so a bit further than you. He had the German record then. Then a week later, you basically struck back and flew 479 kilometers yourself. And then a few days later, Maurice topped that and flew 505 kilometers. How did that feel for you in the end? Are you disappointed when you say, "Shit, now I've lost it"?
So Maurice and I, we also flew together in Brazil last year, or the year before, in 2018. And we've known each other for a really, really long time. And well, that ambition to have this record for yourself, it has to be there. Otherwise, you lack the drive to fly such distances. Because it's quite exhausting. We fly for about eleven hours. And the return journey is no joke either. You don't get home until the next morning and you're driving the whole time. So it's like a 24-hour operation, so to speak.
But if I'm happy for anyone, it's Maurice. And in Brazil, we always celebrated each other's successes. Honestly, that's what makes flying there in Brazil so great for me—it's this team spirit that I also had back then with the Portuguese. We often radio each other in the air and say, "Look, it's better over here." Or if I think back to the last time with Maurice—not the day we flew the records, but one time we flew together and I started him twice. I say, "Maurice, come back, come back." I'm climbing here and he was, say, 30 meters next to me and maybe ten meters ahead of me, and he hadn't really looked back.
And I turned, and he would have flown further. And who knows when he would have caught a thermal next. So, especially in flat country, it's actually enormously important to fly together. And we actually managed that better in '18 than in '19. When we flew those long distances now, we often didn't fly together at all. And for that, it was still amazing that we got so far several times. But I was definitely happy for him. And now, since I don't have the 500 yet, I obviously have to go back next year.
Where exactly is the big appeal of these one-way flights for you? Basically, it's about taking off and letting the strong wind blow you across this landscape. And then you're 1,000 meters above flat, sometimes hilly terrain and stuff like that. But what is it that fascinates you so much about it?
Well, it's sort of... yeah, that's actually a very good question.
You can see a mountain range in the distance, and after an hour, you're already there. It's incredible when you can cover such distances with a paraglider without an engine. And it's just, it's simply fascinating, the landscape, how it changes there and how it's possible. At high altitudes, you often have more wind than further down. So usually on normal days, you can also land properly down below. And yes, the population there in the region is incredibly great, nice, they help you. No matter where you land, you're welcomed warmly. Quite often, I've been given something to eat in the simplest huts there while I was waiting for the rescue.
That all plays a part too. So it's a complete package, which is really great.
That means you have adventure in the air and then friendly adventure on the ground, because you meet some complete strangers there or whatever. They come out to meet you, but then you also experience this incredible humanity. Yeah,
that makes up at least, at least 50 percent of this whole adventure. So, we were there back in 2015, 2016, and I was already there in 2010 too. I was there in December. That's when it sometimes starts, maybe a bit of rain and a bit less wind. I once flew 250 kilometers in 2010.
But back then, we were in Kishinei. We flew in Kishida. That belongs to the state of Seara. And the population density there is a bit higher than in Rio Grande do Norte, where we started from. It was even the case that the whole population was rooting for me. I once crashed near Kishida. That's always the hardest part—surviving the first two hours in the morning. The thermals are still relatively weak. And you just let yourself rise by 0.5 or a meter, reposition, and then you turn this thermal for about 25 or 30 kilometers, so to speak.
I crashed there once, and there were about 15 teenagers who were already saying my name. They had already seen who it was on the internet via the live tracking. And before I even landed, they already knew my name.
So people are sitting down there following the live tracking and saying, "Oh, that must be that weird German guy showing up as Conru or something." Yeah,
Exactly. So back in 2016, when I flew that record, Kishida was actually the only launch site. It wasn't common knowledge yet, or the standard, to launch with the winch. And that was the launch site. And we were standing there with 60 people and had to queue up just to be able to launch. And I remember exactly, there was an argument that I was actually supposed to be next to launch. But then someone else went ahead and there was a fight. And after that, I wasn't supposed to launch anymore because the wind was too strong. And then I said, I don't care anymore. I'm not usually one to get worked up, but I really wanted to get into the air then.
And I said, I decide when I launch, not just some person who leased the launch site here. And that caused a bit of a real row.
Going back to flying. When you talk about this lowland flying, what would you say—if you can even summarize it like that—what is maybe the most important skill you need to have to be able to survive up there in the air?
Patience and endurance, I believe, are the most important skills. I don't think it's that difficult to fly there. Also, what's very important, of course, is general lowland flying. I think some pilots, very good pilots too, who fly those insane routes in the Alps, have to completely readjust because there are always mountains every now and then. But mountains, we've found out over the years, only hold you up. Mountains are the death of a long, beautiful route. So we've always flown a very small arc from Parelias, where we started now, to ultimately fly around the mountains.
One time the wind was more towards the mountains; Maurice flew around them and got further, while I just hovered up there. That's because I actually tried to go over the mountains. And if you're looking for thermals in the lowlands,
then those aren't such concrete clues, like a south-facing slope in the Alps where the sun hits hard, but rather things you look for, differences between—well, because there are reservoirs, at the edge of the reservoir, the thermals detach. At the edge between brushwood and cleared land where it's more sandy, that's where the thermals detach. So you have to hold onto somewhat less concrete things, so to speak. What about this strong wind, is it hard to handle? Actually only during takeoff and landing. So for landing, if you've been flying all day, you'll have relatively little wind in the evening anyway. But if you're getting washed out in the morning, then the landing itself might not be that difficult.
But you also have to find a proper landing field. And you might be 200 meters high and have a nice landing field below you. If you say you're going to land there now, you can come down like an elevator. But at 200 meters, you can often still achieve a lot. It's incredible. But even in strong winds, you sometimes have a defined area at 50 meters height that you can turn into. To get back up. Only if I go from 200 meters down to 50, I'll keep getting pushed further by the wind and might not have any possible landing field below me. Because there's a lot of that brush there—in Brazil, it's called Juarema. It also turns green during the rainy season.
But otherwise, it's all thorny, thorny scrub growing everywhere there. And if you land in there once, for one thing, you can hurt yourself badly. But especially if the glider falls into it—that happened to me once, I landed on a path like that. But the glider then fell into it with the wind. And it was only a corner of the glider. And it took me an hour and a half to get the lines and the glider out of there. That's also fun, especially
probably in the sun. You already get annoyed that you're stuck. And then you also have to haul your glider out of there.
Yeah, that's brutal. And in the heat, when you have no shade, it's really brutal.
Now, in the air. What was your highest speed so far that you reached with the paraglider while flying? I mean, the highest speed was around 120 km/h over ground. So, was the glider itself fully accelerated, or was that even while trimming and it just pushed you along up there at like 80, 90 km/h?
Yeah, so that was at full throttle with the glider, if the... You could argue about how fast the glider goes. But if you say it's going 60 km/h, then you still had about 60 km/h of wind. And that 60 km/h wind, it's up there at altitude, but on the ground it's more like 40 maybe, or between 40 and 42. So theoretically, if you were to land, you might be flying slowly backwards in trim.
You already said earlier, okay, flying in Brazil usually means strong winds too.
That was in Quijada in 2016. Back then, you had to do a foot launch. This year, you launched from the winch. And which do you prefer? Or rather, which type of launch do you actually consider more dangerous, especially in these strong winds?
So starting at the winch is significantly more pleasant and, I think, less dangerous. When you're at the winch, for one thing... first, you're held in place, which isn't so bad. And then you go up quickly. Maybe that's not entirely safe either, if something goes wrong and you still get pulled up into the air. That's the downside again. Although, you do need a good start leader and a good winch operator for that.
With the winch, there's also the advantage that you can do the Cobra start, which we already did last year and have now perfected a bit. Or rather, it's actually not that hard. And it's just like with kites. You start at the edge of the wind window, and because of that, you have much less pull on the lines than if you were to lay the glider out directly behind you in the direction of the wind. But that's not really possible in the mountains. Because if you try to do a Cobra start in the mountains, there should still be more space, because it can also be pulled off to the side.
Now you have to be able to do the Cobra start, so you have to master the winch start and execute it cleanly at that moment so that everything stands up properly. How often does it happen that even with these winch starts, someone doesn't quite get it right or a gust of wind hits them and the glider shoots up anyway? How often do you get dragged through the dirt hanging from the line?
Yeah, well, we had someone in our group who got dragged through a Juarema. He injured his knee a bit. Thank God, nothing more. I had a collapse once too, but usually, it works. So maybe 70, 80 percent of the time, it goes well. But we only did it again this year on the days when it was really extreme, where in the end, not everyone in the group said they'd start. That was, I think, us pushing right to the limit on one day. That's also a video that went pretty viral on social media.
If you watch this video, basically the starts—the glider doesn't move anymore, it doesn't travel forward, but basically it goes almost vertically up the line. At some point this video stops, it doesn't show it that clearly anymore. Is there still forward motion at some point, or is it actually just that you basically rise on the line like you're letting out a child's kite, and the line is just let out a bit slowly, which is why you get up into the air. And at some point, you just ring out at the top.
Yes, exactly. So the problem was mainly that the winch operator, a Brazilian we had basically trained the previous year, still hadn't internalized that he didn't actually have to drive. He could have just stayed still. But he kept driving with his car and therefore unrolled more line. And I was—I actually moved backwards on the line, even. And behind this airfield, this little one where we were, there was a road with a high-voltage power line. And at that moment when I was being towed, I also thought, oh, I definitely have to gain a lot of altitude here and I can't come down for the first few hours, because then the landing will get pretty hairy, because the wind was really, really, really strong.
And when I reached 600 meters of altitude, he told me to clip in. Then I radioed back in Portuguese, you're crazy, I'm only at 600 meters, I need real altitude here. I'd been towed over 1,000 meters up through the clouds once before by another winch operator. And he told me to clip in. And I said, not yet, I need some more altitude. But he had driven too much, and because of that, the angle was too shallow. And yeah, I think about 20 seconds later, it went buff. I actually wanted to clip in right then. But then the rope had unreeled. And I thought, oh no, if the rope goes over the road and through the bushes, how are we going to do that? So I actually wanted to first...
so I actually wanted to bring it down in elevator mode first, so that I have the end in my hand. And if I could have landed at the spot where I started, I think I would have done it that way too. Then the rope would have come straight down and we could have wound it back up. But since I'm up there, I was definitely flying backwards at 5 to 10 km/h. And then it kept going further back. I had unhooked, but I had the rope in my hand. And then I almost got snagged and thought, now I might have to throw out the rescue soon. But then I got it loose. And then I just threw it down. And they found it again. And thank God, nothing happened with the road and high-voltage lines and all that.
And I wasn't even that high. I was maybe only 400 meters above ground. And I thought, okay, now you have to concentrate. Now you have to somehow get up here, even if it's just a tiny bit, somehow, and just survive. And thank God, it worked. And they somehow spent 2 hours searching for this line, found it again, and wound it up. Thank God, everything worked out.
Now, these winch -towing -areas you have there, those are basically some small airfield runways, as far as I've seen. And that's somewhere in the middle of the boonies. If you were to crash out somewhere there, even early in the day, you'd still have the rest of the day left. What do you do in an area like that?
Oh, there's not much you can do, really. We have a relatively nice hotel, even though it's just a village of about 20,000 people. There's a pool there. And yeah, then you just go, spend the rest of the day at the pool, go into town for some kind of lunch, and just kill some time. But getting a bit of rest is always really good because we usually get up at 5 a.m., have breakfast, and then—departure is 6 a.m. to the airfield. And yeah, if you fly far, like if you fly 300 km, then you might not be home until midnight. Then you do the same program again the next day.
Then you sleep for 5 hours and do it normally. But if you fly further than 300 km, you actually take a rest day the next day. But this sleep management is very, very important. We managed that a bit better in 2019. In 2018, yeah, we were sometimes just too exhausted. So you don't do much. Maybe the people there in town invite you for a barbecue. But otherwise, yeah, there aren't many options.
In cross-country flying, as you mentioned earlier, is team flying—or cross-country flying in this flatland—especially important or does it help immensely? How do you actually do that when starting at the winch? Do you really start in parallel with several winches next to each other? Because otherwise, especially with the wind, if the first one has started and you've run out of line, it'll blow you back. Maybe even at 50 km/h up there at altitude. It's hardly possible for the second one to catch up then, to the point where you could really say you can do team flying.
Yeah, well, we had two winches there. And Maurice is like my wingman, my team buddy, let's put it that way. Sure, sometimes we've met up with other people somewhere in the air and worked together. But we fly, let's say, the same path, the same pace. And we've already seen that we get towed up right one after the other. Otherwise, you can park a bit under the cloud and wait for the other person. That's possible. Once you're up at the base, you can do a few more circles before moving on. Because otherwise, if you want to fly 500 km, you have to switch into a bit of a competition mode.
so that you can trigger the time.
If you look at team flying, the Brazilians are probably masters at it; they even flew the world record as a three-person team again this year. What do they do better than you? I mean, you and Maurice, as a team you might have been down there, but in terms of flying, you often flew a bit past or around each other on the same days, more or less.
Yes, I think we can improve that. We might need a bit more training. They've been doing this for many, many years. And there are actually two more of them. It's actually always four pilots. With almost every world record, one of them didn't make it afterwards. But I think we should pay more attention to each other and talk to each other more.
Then maybe we can make some more progress together.
Well, on the other hand, you also have to catch the right day. That's very important. So maybe it would even be better to head out a bit earlier in the autumn. But neither Maurice nor I can make that work professionally. So we flew out on October 15th this time. And for 2020, I think we'll fly out on October 15th again. But I believe the first two weeks of October are usually very good, if not maybe even a better day among them. But it's always like cycles. A few days of a break, no wind, and then a few days of wind again. And then you just have to catch the right day.
So, October 2020, you're saying you want to go for it again this year. What's the goal?
So for me, in any case, first of all the actual 500. Or Maurice has also flown over 500 kilometers, but only in, let's say, XC. Not from one point of departure to one point of landing. He missed that by a very narrow margin too. So we definitely want to crack the 500 mark. And beyond that, anything is possible.
But a bit, yeah, I don't know, it's almost become more important to me now to break my own record than any
official ones. If you look at your own records, in 2019 you also set your own record and another one. You're from Rammelsberg. That's like your home mountain near Goslar. There, you flew 170 kilometers over the Harz. That's also a launch site record for Rammelsberg itself. How do you categorize such flights in relation to these many other Brazilian flights? What does a flight like that give you? What kind of value do you see in that then? I mean
In terms of the demands placed on the flight, it wasn't any less challenging than now. It was a 480-kilometer flight, or 479. It was just a few hours less, of course.
But yeah, that's also incredibly fun. I had a really great 2019 season. I did that flight you mentioned from Rammelsberg. And then I did one from near Rammelsberg that went almost all the way to Frankfurt. And... so those are also great flights. I wasn't out that often, though. But when I was, it was worth it. And yeah, I'd of course love to fly more routes here in Germany. But there's more possible there. I just have to make sure I get to the mountain earlier. That's simply the be-all and end-all to make sure there's enough time afterwards.
Let's change the subject a bit. Basically, you're a farmer. You run a large arable farming operation near Goslar. At the same time, you have a large paraglider check operation called XContest. Since 2008, you've also been running the small but, let's say, fine paraglider brand Aircross. Then you're the general importer for Soul and Flymaster and things like that. How does all of that actually fit into your daily life?
Well, it mostly works because I really have a great team. I have a good employee in agriculture who takes care of everything, and my father, who still helps me a lot. He's turning 80 now, but he still does a lot for both companies, like the payroll and so on. And in the XContest check operation, I also have a great team with someone who actually manages everything, with John, whom I'm sure many people in the paragliding scene already know. So, with John, Walter, and also Peter, there are three pilots. Or four pilots, including me, who work in this company. And then there are four non-pilots for the administration and the seamstresses.
So that only works with a good team. And I'm already sort of sorting things out now and looking at what the important and right things are.
And... Well, the farming I do, the farm I run, that's a leased operation. It's a monastery estate, it's not owned. And my father, back then after my studies, said it's good if you have a second pillar. And so it just happened that, parallel to the farming, where you have less to do in the winter—it's a pure arable farm,
yeah, where I then also built up this paraglider business on the side.
If someone who's just meeting you asks what you do for a living, what do you say? Do you say I'm a farmer, or do you say I run a paraglider brand, or what do you say then?
I think, first and foremost, I say I'm an entrepreneur. And then I just say, I'm an entrepreneur. I have, on one hand, an agricultural business and on the other, an aviation technology business.
Let's talk about Aircross, your paraglider brand. How did you get into that at all? You don't design the paragliders yourself, after all.
Yes, that was in the same year, so twelve years ago, when I founded XContest and bought this paraglider workshop—or actually, already in the autumn of 2007—I contacted the designer. And at that time, Skyline was the importer for Aircross. And I wanted to buy this glider, the U3, back then. It was the ultimate competition glider. And I was quite successful with it at the time. But the company Skyline told me, "Well, the company Aircross probably won't exist much longer. We might want to do something with the designer, but he only speaks French." And then I said, "Man, I speak French."
I like other languages. And I wanted to get into the paraglider business. We could do that together. And then I contacted the designer. And he said we could gladly continue Aircross together.
And that's sort of how it came about. So, actually only with the competition glider. The first glider was the U4. He designed, cut, and sewed it himself in France. All by himself in his room. With probably 400 working hours, I think, or 500. And I was allowed to fly that thing and was totally thrilled. I said we have to bring that to the market. And that was quite successful in the first years too. It's just that the cooperation with the colleague unfortunately became a bit more difficult over time, until we eventually split up a few years ago. So for a while we were two designers, also two French designers, Paul Amiel then. And I continued it with him.
But even today, you still have to count Aircross among the rather really small manufacturers. Is it actually still worth it in a time when other large manufacturers employ entire development and testing teams, to maintain that in such a small framework and bring individual glider models to the market? Well, it's difficult.
When I flew that record in 2016 with our B-glider, I thought it would be a bombshell. And unfortunately, that wasn't the case. And we've been looking for strategic partnerships for a while now—not just us as Aircross, but also other smaller manufacturers. So, over the last few years, we've developed glider models together with Zoll and also with Flow. And it's not just us; other companies are making partnerships and developing models together because the development costs are simply too high for the quantities we bring to market.
Since 2016, you've also been the general importer for Zoll. How do you handle it when you say, I have my own brand and I have a foreign brand, and now both under one roof? Basically, with Zoll, you're somewhat competing with your own gliders, perhaps. How do you manage something like that?
I'm relatively emotionless about it. I just think it's good if I can offer customers different things. In the end, it's just important that the customer is satisfied. And I have to say, over the last few years, I've gotten to know and appreciate Zoll more and more. I used to think—maybe I did think—about what the brand's image actually is in Europe. It's more like, well, it's a South American brand. But actually, they build really great gliders. They were also innovative back then with a single-liner, and also with interesting competition gliders. Now, with the LT1, which I did that one long flight with.
It's a two-liner, but it actually has the characteristics and glide of a C-glider. There's nothing else like it on the market. And I'm pretty emotionless about it. But I also have to see where the journey is going, what's being asked for more. At the moment, I have to say, what's really carrying the business is the service. And we certainly have the most checks and repairs, maybe together with one or two other companies in Germany, I think. And that's the main pillar of the business right now. That
That means, as a check operation, that runs under XContest as a brand. Does that mean you can actually make money with glider checks like these?
Yes, that's right. You might not get rich from it, but we're doing well over 1,000 checks now. Per year? Per year, exactly. And we also do many, many repairs. A lot of them are from motor glider pilots, when the glider somehow falls into the motor instead of staying behind it.
And yes, that is, I'd say, like a large car workshop. But it's also a lot of work. And what we've also gained as a business branch at XContest is that, in the end, we supply all the check centers in the world with lines. And that's also a good source of income. Because of that, we have, I'd say, the largest line warehouse that exists at all.
How does that work? I mean, there are various line manufacturers. There's Liros, Edelried, Cousin from France, and so on. Do you store the lines from all these manufacturers on-site, and then the people have to order them from you? Why not directly from the manufacturer? Yes,
They don't have to order from me, but they do because they have to take off large quantities from the manufacturer. And you can really only take off those large quantities if you produce. But in the check centers, where we just always have to replace a few lines, whether it's because of a repair or to check the breaking strength of the lines, you can't do anything with a 1,000-meter roll.
And I believe Edelried was the first company to start charging a surcharge for the smallest quantities, basically making the lines twice as expensive. Of course, all the check centers, including me at the time, cried out and said, "Man, that's not right." But it had to be, because we had to buy the lines. That just ended up being reflected in a slightly higher check price. And despite this surcharge, a few years later Edelried said, "Man, this is still annoying us. We have a completely different business. We sell Ozone 50,000 meters, we sell Gin 30,000 meters. Those are just completely different spheres." And so, in our conversation, we eventually came to the point where we said, "Okay, we as XContest will do it."
We buy the 1,000-meter rolls, or sometimes even 2,000-meter rolls if it's a very thin line, and then sell a minimum of 50 meters to other check operators.
That means if someone comes to you, or rather to your workshop, there are hundreds of lines hanging on the wall, because there really are all sorts of different formats of them.
Yeah, exactly. The workshop is 160 square meters, and one entire wall is full of lines, from bottom to top with a ladder. And above that are the labels for the individual lines. And I don't think there's another company that has a line storage as well-sorted as ours.
But that doesn't mean that I, as a solo pilot, would say, I need a new line, send me seven meters. Instead, you say, no, 50 meters is the minimum order. And we actually only do that for direct check operations.
So we also have an online shop where you can basically order the lines. But even there, 50 meters is the minimum in the end. But there are also people who buy them from us privately. And lately, it's even gone so far that we now have kiters who also source their lines from us. Because sometimes they're the same ones. Otherwise, we're also expanding our stock with the lines now. So
If you look at it that way, you're basically right in the middle of the paraglider scene with XContest and are a part of it, even if it might not be completely obvious to everyone.
Yes, I think so. Yeah, you could see it that way. And also Aircross or Sol, that all runs under the name XContest GmbH. It is a company, but maybe not as present as you already said.
So you've landed right in the middle of your paragliding stories. You also turned 40 last year, so in that sense, you're right in the prime of your life. What plans do you have for the future?
So at the moment, yeah, I'd definitely like to travel more. But we have two kids, they're five and seven. And with school and all that, it's always difficult, of course. But right now, there's an expansion of the business area planned, where we import ultralight aircraft—so a very fast travel ultralight. And my hope is, of course, that I'll be able to hop in there quickly sometime and maybe fly into the Alps, do a bit of paragliding there, and then fly back. I did that two years ago with my current ultralight, which is a bit slower, with a buddy. We basically spent an autumn in Brazil and then flew over the Alps to Italy.
And we went paragliding there and flew back. That was also great. So, ultralight flying is quite nice. And for me personally, I've also started kiteboarding now. That's also a huge amount of fun. But yeah, those are the two... one is private with the kiting, and the other with the plane is still a novelty in the business sector. Those are the two projects at the moment. But otherwise, of course, continuing to manage the check operation, the paraglider brands, and the agriculture properly. Maybe
We can also close the circle a bit there, when you say ultralight flying and that you can also fly to fly and so on. If you take Brazil, where you say those retrieval operations after 400 or 500 kilometers of flight are already incredibly long, wouldn't that also be an option? To say you get picked up while flying—wouldn't that actually work much better?
Definitely. It's probably just a question of price, and also if there's a strong wind again the next day—meaning a headwind—then of course it's difficult to make forward progress. And if we land there in Brazil, it gets dark very quickly right after landing. You have to say, when we took off in Quijada, you fly a bit further west. Then at the end of the flight, the base altitudes are a bit higher. So, in the last two years, we've rarely reached 3,000 meters. But if you get into the state of Piauí, the base is often still over 3,000. And then in the evening, you have to watch the glide; a glide like that can take 40 minutes before you're on the ground and it's dark.
Because it's so close to the equator there that the light goes out pretty quickly. But I can tell you another great story. This year, I did a fantastic cross-country flight from my home. We started here on my farm with the winch. So, we have our own track for the UL and for the winch. And then I flew over the Braunschweig-Berlin control zone, right over it. I saw that it was doable and landed near Uelzen. There was an airfield there. And then I asked someone if he could fly me back. And then I was flown back in the plane. So that's definitely a great way to do it.
Maybe that's also a future where we can say that flying can be combined with flying. There are other paraglider pilots, like Paul Guschlbauer for example, who already combines both very professionally. Maybe that can be taken even further in the future. Konrad, thank you for your great stories about your Brazilian adventures and what you're still doing with your other companies there. Thank you, and I especially wish you that you'll actually manage to crack that 500 in 2020.
Yes, thanks a lot, Lucian. Thank you very much for the interview as well, and bye.
That was Lucian Haas in conversation. If you want to learn more about record-breaking flights in Brazil, you can find a whole series of posts from previous years on this topic in my blog Lu-Glidz. The best way is to simply type "Brazil" into the search function. I've also put together some further links in the show notes for this podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, I'd like to briefly point out that this hour of entertainment doesn't just appear out of your speaker or headphones, which you're constantly putting on. There's a lot of work behind it. Of course, I enjoy doing it, but as a freelance journalist, I also earn part of my income from it. Thanks to some Podz-Glidz listeners and Lu-Glidz readers who support this project with contributions. Maybe you're already one of them? Then I say thank you. Maybe you want to be? Then it's very simple. You can send a contribution of your choice via PayPal or bank transfer. You can find all the further details on the Lu-Glidz blog, specifically on the "Support" subpage. Maybe you just listened to this podcast on your way to the launch site.
Then I'll just say have a good flight and a smooth landing every time. See you soon in the next episode of Podz-Glidz. Ciao.