The vultures sometimes come to us and fly with us. Sometimes you get the impression that they fly ahead and signal the ascent. So I think that's also a practice effect, flying with the vultures.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the world of paragliding. Today with Gerhard Gander, many of you probably already know him. And Lucian Haas on the mic.
Algodonales would probably be a picturesque but still quite sleepy mountain village or small town in Andalusia, if hundreds of paragliders and kite flyers from all over Europe didn't descend there every winter. The place, often briefly called Algo, is one of the most popular destinations for paragliding trips during Europe's so-called cold season. In southern Spain, of course, you can still often sit in the sun in a T-shirt at pleasant temperatures. And the climate around the Sierra de Lijar, Algo's home mountain, is also magnificent for thermal flying from autumn to spring. Over 30 years ago, Algodonales was still in a flying Sleeping Beauty slumber. A German, Gerhard Gander, woke up the flight spot.
He flew from the Sierra de Lijar in 1983 as the first pilot, back then with a kite. And he stayed, out of love for the mountain and his Spanish wife Anni, whom he met in Algo. Years later, Gerardo, as he is called in Spain, founded the flight center Gantafly on site, through which he offers pilots rooms for rent and also a shuttle service including support on the mountain. Nowadays, there is a whole range of similar companies on site, all of which make a living. Paragliding has become one of the most important local economic factors. In the podcast, the now 68-year-old Gerardo tells his story of how he discovered Algodonales, how the population once thought he was crazy, but is now very grateful for the development he initiated.
He also explains what makes flying around Algo so special. From the very unique meteorological and thermal conditions to the dozens, even hundreds of vultures that paragliders can share the skies with. I recorded the conversation with Gerhard Gander on-site in Algodonales, including occasional background noises of Andalusian everyday life.
Gerhard, here in Spain you're called Gerardo. Which do you actually prefer, Gerhard or Gerardo?
I don't care, Gerhard, Gerardo, or Gerard, it doesn't matter to me. That means you're international? Exactly, exactly, I'm also about the international aviation family. So, it's an illusion of mine to nurture the international aviation family. So everyone is very welcome.
Now we're sitting here at your house in Algodonales. Up on the roof, beautiful blue sky. Is that very typical here?
Yes, that's very typical. It's very, very typical. So at the beginning, I was here in the summer and I was in a very small tent in the eucalyptus forest, like an unofficial campsite with a kiosk and stuff. And then I'd stick my head out there in the morning. And they say, you don't have to look, it's just blue sky for the next three months. You just said, at the
At the beginning, I was here. Here in a tent, at a campsite with a kiosk. What do you mean "at the beginning"? When was that even? How did you get here and why?
Yeah, yeah, it's just a lot of, a lot of coincidences. Many coincidences. Last night I told people, yeah, the word "quitter" didn't even exist back then. So I quit to enjoy Spain for a year or two. What year are we talking about? Oh, we're talking about 1983. Okay. So you quit in Germany, where you actually come from. Yeah, I was working in Brussels at the time and went to Madrid once for work. And that fascinated me. And I wanted to go to Spain because that was somehow my illusion. I thought it was great. And it was a tough decision to quit there because the economy wasn't that good either.
I was right in the middle of a career. And yeah, I had my degree and was working in Pläning and Preising, that's what it was called. In Brussels for John Deere, for the headquarters of Europe and the Middle East for construction machinery. So it was already an interesting job. But oh well, my parents were going crazy. They said, you study for so long and then throw everything away. But I thought, well, some HR managers will be like that. They'll understand. And some won't. And then, when I come back after one or two years and get back into it, it'll work out somehow. How old were you back then?
Yeah, I was about 32 then. And then you went to Spain and said, "It's so beautiful here, I'm quitting my job."
Yeah, exactly. First, I wanted them to transfer me from Brussels to Spain with my salary. And that would have been great, of course. But unfortunately, that didn't happen. So I just quit. And now, of course, there's this: in 1981, I learned kiteboarding. And then I naturally had my kite on the car, in the car—first in the car. It was like a short-parking thing, about two meters. My kite was lying on the passenger seat. And then I drove to Spain and did a language course. Here and there, and a bit of flying. And the decisive thing was in Malaga. I was in Malaga for the language course. And then, of course, I looked for a kiteboarder. And I found my friend Antonio. He was already kiteboarding here in Spain back then.
Then I drove there to Grasalema. On weekends, there was a meetup in Grasalema. We had breakfast there. And then we went flying. There were some English people there. John, that's what he was called. And a few Spaniards. And a few Spaniards who wanted to but didn't have any gear. Anyway, there were 50 people. We met there in Grasalema. Grasalema is the main town of the Parque Natural de Grasalema. So, the Grasalema Nature Park. Was it already a nature park back then? It wasn't a nature park back then. And we were allowed to fly there. It's different now. And you can see it from here. Those are the great mountains over there, south of here.
And there was a perfectly ideal launch site. Towards the west, northwest. However, from the pass, Puerto la Paloma, you had to carry the glider up another 100 meters of altitude. But I was a beginner. And sometimes my knees would shake and stuff. But it was worth it to launch there once. Because the difference in altitude was 1,100 meters. We landed where the reservoir is today. It wasn't there back then either? It wasn't there, no. That was 1983, as I said. Then it continued with the people. I started coming here almost every weekend from Malaga. Stayed here for a bit. And then we were at that launch site.
The mountain is called El Coros. And then people came from here and said, "Yeah, we have a mountain there. And you can see it from over there, too. The mountain here from Algodonales, Sierra de Lija." So, it would be clear all around. Theoretically, you could launch in any direction. But no one has ever flown there. And there's no launch site there or anything. And that really interested me. I thought, that must be ideal. I'd already seen that the weather was ideal.
And then I stayed here for a week. And I tried to drive up there. People had to get out of the car to guide me over the rocks. So it was very critical. A very, very bad road. But well, when you have illusions and stuff, you just do it. Well, we made it up there. Then I took a look at the side, on that side. And sure, it was tempting. It was great.
Did you already start out there? Or was it not even happening yet? Yeah, I
I don't even know how many times I restarted before I dared to.
I have
roughly in the southeast, where the southeast launch site is today, I just cleared away a few bushes and some stones. And you don't need that much space with a kite if the wind is right. And then I flew there once. And that was the start. From there, we flew southeast here and west to El Bosque. The launch site in El Bosque already existed. However, the path wasn't that far yet. Then you also had to carry it for about a kilometer.
Was that all still in 1983? No, no, that's
so spring,
Summer 1983. You said at the beginning that you lived in a tent. So you were really like a tent nomad.
Yes, that was great too. It was a very small tent. I really lived there in the tent. Down here by the river. And my morning toilet was in the river. The fish would come and tickle or kiss my feet. Everything around was covered in oleander, it's called Adelfa in German. And it was great, a wonderful view. You could see the mountains, so it was a beautiful spot. And I really lived in the tent for months and then went flying during the day. Mostly I left the kite at the launch site and just went back down if the wind wasn't right. There was no internet, no weather forecast, nothing. It either worked or it didn't, then we just went home.
My driver was a baker's apprentice; he didn't even have a driver's license. But he really liked my BMW and was absolutely thrilled whenever he was allowed to drive. But the road was already really
all the way up the mountain? Yes,
we were mostly in—well, I'm talking about the original town square on the mountain in Grasserlema. The handicap there was that you had to carry it up 100 meters. But that wasn't a problem at all because the people—I had so many spectators who were interested, who wanted to watch. It was something new, something interesting. The crazy guy who kills himself and all that. And they carried my kite ahead for me. I just had to run after it. That's how it was. Do you have a nickname or something? El Loco or something else?
something? The crazy one in Spanish
And so? No, but I've heard that a lot in hindsight. It was like, yeah, the crazy guy who's killing himself or something. So now people come up to me, and of course, that's a pleasure for me. Every now and then, people from the village who have nothing to do with it come up to me and ask, what would the village be like if you hadn't come here?
Well, that's a long story. You started in 1983. Today is 2020. So there are almost 30 years between those. How did it go from there? And from when was it that you said, "Ah, I'm staying in Algodonales and I really want to build something around aviation here"?
So you don't even know what the point was yet.
So, in the summer, at the end of the summer, around September—no, it was still August, late August—I thought, yeah, now's a good time, I'm heading off again. And then I met Dani, my wife. And then it was over, just like it always is.
And that's actually how I got stuck here. But I have to emphasize, I really fell in love with the mountain and then with Anni. So first the mountain, then Anni. That's right. That's the chronological order. And
Anni didn't have any problems with a crazy German who's somehow death-defyingly obsessed with mountains.
Yes, I told Anni that flying is important to me. It's part of the deal. So, if we get married, I'm marrying the flying along with it. That's part of it. And she said, "Alright, I'll do it." She
did she also learn to fly from you then?
Yes, she started with a kite. She had her own kite with very beautiful colors, in Atlas. And she practiced and did quite well. But she never actually got to fly. Then, eventually, the children came along.
Did you automatically end up staying in Algodonales from the moment you got married and said, "This is my new home now"? Or did you live somewhere else in between?
No, no. I then, yeah, yeah, I rented a small apartment and such. And so we met in '83 and got married in '84. So it was a bit of love at first sight. And actually, I said, no, not a Spaniard at all. And I still have time. I'm still young. Not getting married so soon. But then it just hit me.
That happens sometimes. Well, you lived here. In the beginning, there probably weren't many flyers around with whom you could somehow do some business in a certain way. Did you ever think about that back then?
No, no, absolutely not. But I did write articles every now and then in the DHV magazine and in Fly & Glide Thermals or whatever it was called back then. And I explained a bit of what was here. And people reacted too. But those were just individual paragliders who couldn't work in Germany during the winter. Dieter, the Zimmermann, a few masons and such. And they were here for a while. Then we went flying together. Not for business, but more socially. So yeah, for the sake of friendship and stuff. And then at some point I built my house. I built my house between '90 and '92.
And it turned out to be pretty big. I was afraid it wouldn't even get finished. And then I set up a few rooms for rent. But that wasn't much of a volume to make a business out of. However, I always had it in mind from the start. I saw that it was ideal and that people would definitely come to me to fly.
When did that happen? Now, the first ones were just for fun. But you saw that it was slowly becoming something you could maybe even make a living from.
That's how it went later on. But I haven't answered your last question yet, about how I made a living. True. Because working here is nothing. You don't get anything out of it and it's also bad. You're poorly paid and there's no work. So that's absolutely nothing. If you want to exist here somehow, you have to have some idea, do something. So the first thing was the wool shop. My wife had a wool shop with her aunt. And when we got married, we took it over. So we sold wool. That sounds very strange, of course. Selling wool here in hot Andalusia. But you have here
there's absolutely no heating. The houses have no heating and poor insulation. And in the winter, there are individual days that are colder. And then you sit inside there shivering. They also have this system. They have a long tablecloth down to the floor. And then you stretch your feet under the table. And originally, there was a coal bucket under the table. And then later, some electric thing. And then it's warm there and you get a bit of heat from below. But your back is freezing cold. And then you need these sweaters. And then wool is a good business. And for Anni, it was both a hobby and her thing, or a meeting point for the women. The wool shop was full. And they practically ate out of their hands.
They'd ask, "What kind of wool should I get? What pattern?" And Anni would then write that down like a plan with deductions and additions, sleeves and so on. So the wool shop did quite well. And then afterwards, the next one was also a good business. That was car importing. I imported used cars, especially off-road vehicles from Germany. And that was a good business for a while. And then I built my house, slowly. And then at some point, I started renting out more rooms. And from around 2000, I had groups. Of course, kite flyers and later paragliders, whom I then looked after with shuttle services and accommodation and all that.
2000, you had, or was it 2001? I think there was even a kite world championship? A world championship?
Exactly. Was that organized with that? Yes, yes, we brought that here. Of course, from that thing, because there's more experience and I also contributed a bit to it. We brought the kite world championships here. The paragliding championship was in Senes de la Vega. And that fit quite well here. And the important thing about it is, I was also responsible for the launch and landing sites. I was in the Spanish team, flew along, and was also involved in the task setting. But the most important thing is the launch sites. So, that was very, very important to me. And you have to be there, at the west launch site, there was a huge Caterpillar active.
There were whole, how should I put it, living rocks, wild rocks there. And we had to gather them up and dump hundreds of trucks of earth on top. And that's the benefit of it now. We have a super ideal launch site. That
means the launch site, as it is now, goes back to that World Cup of dragons, because money was invested back then to get it ready.
Exactly, exactly. That was the condition and Andalusia cooperated. We had 200 kites there, 160 flexible ones and 40 power kites. That was the last World Championship where both were together. Then they separated us. And then we needed 3,000 square meters of space and three launch rows. And although the kites were shoved into one another, we marked numbers on the ground. So it was very tight, but the launch site is just great. And that's not the only one, the other launch site was the southeast. And I added the south launch site to that. And the south launch site is very, very valuable. We have a light wind area here and it happens very often that we fly southeast in the morning, so until one or so, until two, depending on the day.
And then between one and two or between two and three, it's South; you can launch South and then it turns West. And if you have the kite standing there now and you miss it, then you're screwed. But now with the South launch site, you can launch South for about half an hour or an hour. So you don't have to pack down and then ideally set up again. We've already done some very, very good flights from that South launch site. And
Was that the 2001 kite world championships? When did it actually start here to become such a major paraglider spot? Was it also around that time that it became well-known? Yes,
That was about 30 years, 30 years or 20 years of building it up. Because I'd have to prepare the town squares myself, with a few friends and all that. Then I organized a championship once and then, yeah, yeah, the municipality, yeah, yeah, we'll fix the path and so on. And the day before, nothing had been done. They just kept promising, and that's so cruel. You'd still believe that. Anyway, nothing came. And then I had to drive up myself with the truck on the last day before, and with the pickaxe, I put a bit of soil into every pothole and so on. You had to make progress yourself, couldn't rely on the municipality. It had never happened before.
And if it hadn't been for the euphoria, the illusion and all that, I would have said, no, forget the championship, we've got a house. I actually fought over that. You
you also said at the beginning that it was mainly paragliders who came. When was the momentum where you noticed, oh, now we can
...more paragliders? That's true. It became better known starting with the World Championships, automatically through publicity and such. And at the World Championships, there were 40 nations of hang gliders. And that starts to get talked about somehow. And then from 2000 onwards, I also supervised groups. And it went up more and more every year. And now, during the peak months, we have two to three buses full to supervise. What
What do you mean by peak months? I mean, based on your experience, what's the main flying season here?
out? Yes, well, we do
We close in June, July, and August because in my opinion, you can fly almost anywhere then. To the Alps or central Spain—northern Spain is much more interesting in my view. It's just too hot here first of all. What's interesting here are the late summer, winter, and spring. So the high season is October, November, and March. And there are many arguments from the people. I ask people why they come. A large part of my customers come every year or maybe twice a year. And there are many reasons. They say they want to shorten the winter, if the weather is miserable in November, they come here and have great sun.
First, you enjoy the sun, then you enjoy the food, then you enjoy the atmosphere here in the village square. And of course, the flying is part of it too, but it's not always the top priority.
Well, you basically helped build this up. But by now, there's a whole range of other tour operators. And there are Brits and Dutch and Spaniards doing something like this here. When did it actually happen that they said, oh, Algodonales is so good, there's enough space to set up several businesses like this?
Exactly, exactly, exactly. At the moment there are six or seven, but that's true. I started, and then at some point a flight school came along and other people came to do the supervision. And of course, I don't see that as unfair. I see it as the sky being there for everyone, the mountain being there for everyone, and we all have space. Well, some people think, yeah, that's competition. So far, we're doing well. We have many customers, so everything is fine so far. The only problem I see, and we're working on solving that, is that there are some days when it's very crowded. And that happens because different buses are arriving.
So, some Poles, Czechs, Portuguese, or something like that. Also guides, they come here with several buses full, and if it all happens to coincide—that three from here and two from there and three from over there suddenly show up—then it's suddenly too much. But no one can forbid that except the municipality. The municipality can say, the sports field or the mountain, it belongs to me, and you can fly there or you can't. And now it could be that we organize something like at the Dune de Pilar, where groups have to register and then a maximum of so and so many people are allowed to come.
You were just saying that the mountain belongs to the municipality and so on. To what extent is the municipality supporting paragliding now? You said at the beginning they promised to build something for you, but then they didn't do it. Are they keeping their promises now, or are they saying, "We see that we benefit a lot from the paragliders who all come here, so now we're giving something back or expanding it because we have our own interest in it"?
So the municipality, I started my company, Centro de Vuelo Gandaflei or Gandaflei Flight Center, and they already confirmed to me that aviation is an important economic factor. Nowadays, it's much, much more. So the municipality clearly sees that it's an economic factor for the village. The people and the restaurants, that's obvious—half the restaurants wouldn't be here if the paragliders weren't here. That is clearly the economic factor, but the municipality is still doing very, very little. After a long time of begging and back and forth, we now have a new weather station that works better than the old one, and every now and then something gets done, but a lot was promised,
We're supposed to get wind socks and this and that. And yes, in November it's supposed to happen, but it's still not ready. The project we had, they wanted to invest 2 million euros from Europe, then it ended up back in the drawer. Now it's coming out again. So now the project is being carried out, all the launch sites are supposed to be properly prepared, the road, the power line. In my opinion, the power line is the biggest handicap of the flight area, the power line at the Westlandeplatz. It's always there, it's 20,000 volts, that's very, very dangerous. I always warn my people very intensely about that; you don't even have to reach the ground, if you're hanging there and it doesn't reach the ground at all, then the electricity jumps over and you're gone.
Has anyone ever landed in there? That's happened several times, unfortunately. The last person who flew into it had a completely black leg. But did he survive? He survived, but the leg is probably no longer usable because everything inside gets destroyed—the nerves, the blood vessels, everything. Sometimes the accidents aren't direct, where people fly right into it, but they fly very high over it and approach the landing field from very high up, and then they want to come down and rip and rip and rip the glider off. Those are the most common accidents we have here, where people at the Westlandeplatz rip the glider off, and it's so cruel to watch.
You watch it happen, and then he rips it off and bam, and then they just slam down and break their backs. So we've already had several accidents like that.
You started out as a kite surfer, but now you also fly a paraglider, or I think mainly paragliding. Yes, that is
Well, I was the kite flyer, the crazy one who kills himself. The current mayor told me that recently. He admires it now because we're so well-known by now. I mean, no one ever thought we'd ever be as famous or well-known as, for example, Tarifa for surfing. They really appreciate that. What was the question now?
The switch for you—you started as a power kiter, but at some point, you moved to paragliding. When was that? Yeah, I sort of...
...really struggled against the erratic flying, and at one point, back when the things were still so square, with those huge cells, I ran down such steep slopes and it was nothing. And I also flew with the English guys who did the championships here; I'd take off with the kite just before them and practically fly parallel with them, and they would just collapse and everything, collapse and everything. And I said, no, no, this is nothing. I see now, I flew both for a while and now only paraglider. So paragliders have become significantly, significantly better. I have more confidence in them now. It doesn't wobble like I...
I just felt so uncomfortable because it wobbled so much at the beginning. No, that's okay now. I'm doing well with it. But I've flown kites for a long time, about 25 years—every championship, all the Spanish championships, local championships, Andalusian and League, and so on. So I've flown kites very intensively. Did you ever win anything? Yes, I have quite a few trophies. I won the Andalusian championship every now and then, and sometimes came in second. We had the Boski championship in the Easter championship for over 30 years. And I won that every now and then too. And then I was on the Spanish team at the World Championships twice, and about five times at the European Championships in Slovenia, in the Alps, in Innsbruck, and various other places.
Let's go back to Algarona for a moment. Now, when they say, "Okay, you built this up, we're now as famous for paragliders as Tarifa is for kites and everything else." Are you actually an honorary citizen of Algodonales by now? Because they say here, he's done a lot for us.
Yeah, that's funny too. I was once an honorary mayor. What does that mean? Well, it means any person who has done something for the village or is famous—one is a hairdresser, they get a Goya, and so on and so forth. And no, that was already nice for me. And then the mayor gives a speech and hands over the key, and I was like, an honorary mayor. That was already nice. Is that for a year or a day? No, no, it was for a year and the next year some other guy gets it, some doctor or something. So it was already nice. And then the mayor said, yeah, he is, how do you say, a consul or something.
...who spread that out into the world.
If you look at the population here in Algern and all, when they see so many planes here all the time, is there actually something like a local aviation community from the village that's said, "We want to learn that too"? Or is it actually more like they say, "Those are those weird internationals, the tourists, who come here to fly," but to me, it all seems suspicious. They're so down-to-earth that they'd rather stay on the ground. Well,
People talk about it a lot here, of course. Nowadays, it's just a handful or two. My sons and I, we're already three here. And in total, there aren't even ten from the village who fly. You have the good stuff within range, but you don't see it or don't appreciate it. Flying isn't seen the same way as it used to be. So, this is just the norm here now. And people admire how colorful the sky is and that so many people come. It's not seen as crazy or dangerous anymore.
Well, at the beginning, it was all wild flying here. In recent years, even in Spain, it's become a bit more controlled. There are airspaces where anyone used to just fly in and nothing happened. And now there are discussions. What's the situation like here around Algodonales regarding that?
That's our problem with the airspaces. So, right here in Algodonales, up to 4,000 feet, we don't really have a problem. That's not airspace. And above 4,000 feet is the Seville TMA. And the Seville TMA is almost all of Andalusia. They set that up once, and nobody said anything. And now you fly a little bit north or something, and then you're in the Seville TMA. So all the flights here go into the Seville TMA. People still upload them anyway. And nothing happens. And I don't see that as particularly dangerous at the moment, because the planes aren't flying around there. They should actually create a funnel, like is usual near an airfield.
The TMA lower and then the CTR. But it's a bit chaotic here. And now we're in the middle of it.
Either, if you look closely, there's something else: across all of Spain, we're only allowed to fly a maximum of 300 meters high. And that's a regulation that comes from the UL regulations. There is no specific regulation for paragliders. So we're just lumped in with them. Now, we should actually create a specific regulation for paragliders. And the other alternative is to create airspaces for free flight. And now a commission or some kind of agency has been set up to talk with aviation safety, with the municipalities, and with the flight initiatives.
But it's moving very, very slowly. So we have the chance that they might restrict the TMA of Seville and that we'll establish the first free airspace here. But those are visions for the future. We'll see what happens there. But
you said that around Algonales itself, the airspace is basically still free. So, right now around the mountain...
you can... From an airspace perspective, from the Sevilla TMA, it's great here. But there's the other regulation. Technically, you shouldn't be allowed to fly anywhere in Spain at all, because you fly away from the launch site and go above 300 meters. If we take the UL regulation into account, where we're supposed to fall down, then you wouldn't be allowed to fly anywhere in Spain. In Vietahita or... it applies everywhere just the same. But at the moment, nobody is looking at that.
That means, only for competitions like that, the corresponding NOTAMs are requested or set up so that you can say, "Now you're allowed to..."
We had the last championship for paragliders here and we issued NOTAMs. And then we... However, they turned a bit of a blind eye. So... it went well.
A bit further east from here, there were already real problems. That was with the airspace of the Malaga airport, where there were apparently some really close encounters between paragliders and aircraft, where it then meant, okay, entire flying areas were basically closed off.
Exactly. I want to explain that in a bit more detail. And you can see from that that we're looking a bit more closely today at what can actually be taken from that. So, in the Malaga CTR, there were encounters. Three were published and so on. And in reality, there were many more encounters. In Valladolach, the planes often flew under the paragliders. And from the plane, you could see the launch site quite well. And it's exactly the approach path; the pilots can choose visual flight and can go down as low as they want. And then it's exactly the direction of the runway, so exactly over the Valladolach launch site.
And now the discussion came up that you're not allowed to fly there anymore and so on and so forth. Then the mayor said of Valladolid, "Yes, that is the Capital de Vuelo, that is the capital of flying." It has always been that way and always will be. And that's obviously not possible. Now it's just that it's being controlled more. The police check the launch site from time to time. And they can supposedly confiscate the equipment and issue a fine of up to 6,000 euros. Does that mean flying is really prohibited there? Yes, but it's nonsense for us to say that it was now forbidden. In Germany or somewhere like that, no one would have ever had the idea to fly there.
Or a helicopter would have come right along, and I would have pushed it down. So it's not that we're destroying something that used to be there, but it was good. I flew there back then too. But we had a pilot in our group from Air Europa and he explained it to us. And we flew to Loja and places like that. But we flew relatively low and had already taken the airplanes into account.
Now, back to Algodonales, a different story—not airspace, but something you often encounter here: the many vultures flying around.
Yes, they're here.
Do you like these animals? I like them very much and people are also thrilled. It's so great. Even the nature authority has people here again and again watching with binoculars to see how it goes. And with the birds, with the paragliders. So in the past, there were signs saying we had to stay 300 meters away horizontally and 500 meters vertically above the nests and so on. And the signs are gone now. The conservationists have realized that. The vultures sometimes come to us and fly with us. Sometimes you get the impression that they fly ahead and indicate the thermals. And they fly together very closely.
And people are thrilled. And they never attack. They don't attack anything to eat either. They just eat whatever they want, and they could easily attack a rabbit or something. They've never attacked a paraglider or anything like that.
The most I've ever heard, I once flew close to a nest, was one of them growling. I can't even imitate that sound. So that was the most extreme thing so far. And
no bird has ever flown into the lines there. So
Can they see it somehow? It's admirable. I don't get it either. Because it's a paraglider and there's the pilot. And the lines are so thin, and thinner and thinner. But somehow they must be checking that. I don't know how either.
It happened to me while flying two or three days ago. I was in a thermal with three of them as well. So three vultures and a few other paragliders. And then everyone turned left. The vultures at first too. But then suddenly, all the vultures that were there changed direction. And then one of the paragliders, actually quite stupidly, said, if they're turning right now, then I'll turn right too. So he followed them. But as soon as he followed them to the right, the vultures turned around again and he followed them the other way. I wondered then if the vultures maybe even prefer turning the opposite way of us, because they can keep us in their field of vision better than if you're flying behind them. And they might not be able to see that very well. Have you had experiences like that too?
I prefer to do it the other way around myself. So if the vulture is circling to the right, I circle to the left. I somehow have more control that way. Because it's not exactly the same way the vultures fly and climb. I mean, you can climb in the thermals just as the vulture does if you do it right. But I have more control if I fly in the opposite direction. What do you mean by control? So you feel the air better? Yes.
So first, I want to read where he's gaining good lift. And second, I want to avoid him colliding with me. So there are sometimes situations where they're just hanging in the air without any energy. They have the lock position in their shoulders and hang there, and sometimes they look outward. Lock position means they can basically lock their wings? They have two locking positions. One for extended wings in thermals. And then, when they leave the thermals, they tuck their wings down. And they switch the shoulders to fast flight. Slightly angled, and then they have incredible speed. And super glide performance. No glider and no one stands a chance there. And now, I've experienced from time to time that they look outward.
Normally, there would be a collision. And then I scream and he does this stall, like a full brake. And goes down. So, does shouting help? Yes, yes. I mean, they do hear you. Definitely. No, no. They get startled first and do something like they're landing. Do you have to shout in Spanish or does it not matter? It doesn't matter. No, no. They react. They react.
so immediately. But I've also noticed, at least with the weak thermals that you can circle around in relatively large areas, they don't climb better than we paraglider pilots actually do.
So I learned to circle tighter with the dragons. I had one once, while I was filming for Gunther Gipphardt. There was a camera on my helmet and everything. And then there were two vultures below me. They kept getting closer. No, that's not okay. That's not okay. They can't overtake me, that's not okay. So I just kept circling tighter and tighter. And then we climbed to the same distance and everything was perfect. And I just keep repeating that. And that—I think it's also a practice effect, flying with the vultures. It's often the case that they're somehow on the southeast slope, on the northeast side there in the bay. They go up there and then we fly there, flying up with them.
So it's very, very often that they show us the thermals.
What about long-distance flights? Do they fly long distances themselves, or do they always just fly around their cliffs? Or can you say, "That one is flying away, I'll fly with it and keep following it," and it will show me where they're going?
Yes, those are two interesting topics. So they fly a lot just for the fun of it. They fly around the home mountain a lot, back and forth, up and down. So it's not about looking for food there. But there are conservationists who occasionally have antennas up here on the mountain. And they have vultures with the thing on them, with the responder. And they track vultures that fly 200 kilometers away from here looking for food. So those vultures have certain periods of famine. Because we have about 500 here at the home mountain that nest here. We have the Safra Magron, the rock north of us. That's a small nature reserve. And they're counted there; that's 503 according to the last count.
And then we have the Grasalema Nature Park. There are definitely way more than 500 there. So on a small area, we have 1,500 vultures. They can supposedly last 30 to 50 days without eating. They only have to drink in between. But still, with such a huge number, they need something to eat. Now, there are things that are fed with slaughterhouse waste. And it's not intentionally near here. Instead, at the moment, there's a feeding site in Arcus. And there, they just dump a bucket of slaughterhouse waste. And the vultures fight over it. So they get a little something to eat that way.
How far is it to fly from here to Arcus? Oh, by car it's 50 kilometers. As the crow flies, it's probably 40 or something. That means if they fly to feed, we could go on a route with them. And say, you land at the very end. Oh, that thing about route flying is also... that happens very, very often. You fly from here somehow to Ronda or to Olvera. Or further. And if you then encounter vultures on the line, then you're on the right line. And it happens often that you... I'm always looking, I'm always looking very intensely at birds, at vultures, to see if you see something somewhere. And if they're circling somewhere, nothing like heading towards you. So they've saved me from drowning many times. And there are always reports from people who are flying on routes here.
And the vulture saved me. So that's a great thing. And it's always a huge experience.
Out of all of that, I mean, you've been flying here for 30 years now. Is there ever a highlight flight where you'd say, "That was the flight of my life" that I've done in this area?
Oh, yeah. I once flew like a rocket with a hang glider. That was quite a flight. And experiences with the vultures, that happens all the time. And of course, the—how should I put it—meteorology. The aerodynamics or whatever you call it. That happens often here. For example, at the southeast landing field. You're very, very low there. You're already preparing to land. And then it goes up again. Those are naturally the best thermals, if you think about it. The flight is finished and now it goes again. I find that to be something typical here. And probably, Lucian, you know better. Here, the sun just doesn't get as strong.
The ground gets warmed up so much that the thermals often come from way down below. And then I've experienced other areas in the Alps. And there, with 500 meters, you can't do anything anymore. You're stuck down there. Because the slopes there warm up and because the thermals behave differently there somehow.
Well, you often have these shifting wind systems here, as you mentioned earlier. You start in the southeast in the morning. And the wind shifts. The wind then shifts accordingly to the south. And then at some point in the afternoon, it always comes from the west. Is that something you can actually always count on? On classic low-wind days, where I thought, well, the north wind is blowing so strongly that it's completely
...cold.
You've got that
You've checked that very well and described it very well with the wind and so on, with the influences. So we have influences from the Mediterranean and the Atlantic. We are relatively protected from the Mediterranean. When the Levante pushes in, it pushes further inland in some valleys. And we can also take advantage of that for cross-country flying. You fly a bit further north and gain a bit towards the north. And because of that, convergence occurs. But you really have to know your way around to take advantage of that. So Nacho there, he's got it down. Or Ramon. And Nacho has also flown over 300 kilometers in a paraglider.
And that triangle, the biggest one was 158, something like that. So, those were some proud flights. We don't have the area here for major cross-country flying. The advantage we have is the frequency of flights. We fly very, very often, almost every day. That's where I see the big advantage here.
In terms of development, you have children too. Your sons are basically in the business now. Are they just going to take over? And will this become a sort of Gunterfly dynasty?
Well, that's already happened. I'm the runner now, in a way. And it's all running with my two sons now. I'm very, very happy that they're continuing. Carlos and Manuel. The thing is, the flying here, or the flight area, is my baby. I've developed that and fought for it over so many years. Now it runs on its own. I haven't done any advertising for a long time. And more and more people are coming. The people who come, keep coming back. And now it runs on its own. It's a self-runner, as they say. And now I'm supposed to throw it all away. That would hurt me. So that's why I'm very glad that they're continuing. And I'm still involved too.
I fly a bit more now. Sometimes I'm involved as a libero. And then I get to fly. And I just enjoy it so much. That means,
you have four children in total. I think two sons, two daughters. And a fifth child, the flight area.
No, you miscounted the kids. Because it's two sons and one daughter. And the baby. Yes,
that's my baby. Some people will understand, those who have built a company. You get attached to it somehow. It's not just about the economics. It's somehow, it's something internal. Okay. Carlos. Oh, Carlos.
Thanks
for this beautiful story. I think that's a lovely way to wrap up with the outlook of what's next for your child here—so, the flight area as a child, which is also allowed to keep growing. Thank you for the narration. And I wish you many more wonderful flights with the vultures here.
Yes, thank you very much. So. And I also wish all the visitors a great time here.
They will certainly have that, at least if the weather is as nice as it is today.
That was Gerhard Ganter in conversation with Lucian Haas. If you want to learn more about the Algodonales flight area, you can find a detailed description of the launch sites on my blog Luglights. The link to this, as well as other information, can be found in the show notes for this podcast. Anyone interested in accommodation and support services from Gantafly should check out the corresponding website, www.gantafly.de. If you enjoyed this podcast, don't forget to support my work on Podz-Glidz and the Luglights blog as a voluntary supporter. How much you want to give as a contribution is entirely up to you. For those who are unsure, I recommend a non-binding guideline of one euro per podcast episode and two euros per reading month on Luglights.
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