Of course, you can't be too cautious, otherwise you won't make any progress, but you also can't push yourself too much, or you'll stay in that danger zone for too long. Some kind of middle ground would be great, or just setting some rules for yourself, for example: okay, at 200 meters of altitude, I'm not doing any stunts anymore. I just stop there, because actually, agro-flying is pretty predictable.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the cosmos of paragliding.
Today with Gabi
Funk and
Lucian Haas at the microphone. If you want to reach the top of the world in aerobatics, you have to train, train, and then train some more. Days, weeks, months, years. Every new maneuver requires its own specific movement patterns and perfect timing to be executed not only safely, but also aesthetically when combined with other flight figures. Since this year, a woman has also joined the world elite. The 34-year-old Gabi Funk, of German-Brazilian descent, took first place in the women's category at the 2021 Aerobatic World Championships. However, she was onlyunofficially granted the title of Aerobatic World Champion, as there were only three female participants in the field, which was not enough to crown an official female champion according to FAI regulations.
However, Gabi won the choice. She also held her own well compared to her male competitors. In the last of four rounds, she landed in 15th place, placing her in the solid middle of the pack. And that's despite the fact that she's only started training consistently this year. In this episode number 63 of Podz-Glidz, Gabi Funk tells us how she got into agro-flying and what drives her to dedicate her life to dynamic flying. How she travels through the country as a nomad without a permanent residence, dedicating her life to jobs in hotels or as a tandem pilot. And how she can finance her great but unpaid passion at all. It's about flying as an addiction, weeks of training, the female touch in agro-flying, Gabi's favorite maneuvers, and her dream of perhaps one day reaching a spot in the top 10 in the male-dominated world of agro-flying.
By the way, this podcast was recorded in a car during rainy weather. You'll hear a few raindrops in between. Please excuse that. It's very important to me that you're listening to this podcast. If you're able to listen to it, you don't owe any interest-driven, commercial sponsors. I fund Podz-Glidz and the associated blog Looglides solely through voluntary contributions from my listeners and readers. If you enjoy the blog and the podcast, then please help me continue these time-consuming projects independently in the future. You can find out how you can easily become a supporter without any obligation on the Looglides website, under the "Support" menu item.
Gabi, you said you're shy. Why?
Because I'm unsure if I'm doing it right or not. But
aren't you shy when you're flying?
Yeah, well, I don't think so. No, I'm just too curious.
That means you're so curious that you even became the agro world champion. Out of curiosity.
Yeah, well, sorry. I don't know.
Then let me ask it differently. Gabi, how does it feel to be the newly minted, unofficial world champion of Agro-Fliegen?
I feel completely normal. Not much has happened, but a lot has happened in the last six months. And I'm really happy that I was able to do what I love, which is agro-flying.
Why is it always said that you're the unofficial world champion? Why aren't you the official world champion?
Because for the World Championships, we needed at least eight female pilots, and at least four of them had to be from different nations. And there were only three of us. And that's why there was no official women's ranking.
That means first to third place were out of the question from the start. What does out of the question mean? They were fixed from the start. You just had to somehow fly along, then you would have at least finished third in the women's ranking. And you could have said, I won bronze, something like that. Yeah,
Actually, yes. But of course, nobody wanted that. I mean, we all basically joined in for fun. For me, it was interesting to see how far I could go with the men, to keep up a bit.
Then there was the awards ceremony. And on the podium, there were only men standing. And there was nothing for the women, even though they had participated too. And somehow, it was also unofficial, like you just became a world champion there. Was that a weird moment for you, where you thought, "Something's missing here"? Or was it just, well, that's how it is?
I figured as much, because they explained it. It felt a bit incomplete, like the mission wasn't finished.
But otherwise, of course, I was super happy. For everyone who was standing there. And you felt like a part of it anyway. I mean, it's like a whole family, like the Agro family.
How did the men react to that? Were there people who said, "Organizers, how could you just forget the women?" Or did nobody really notice at the time, and it was only afterwards that they said something was missing?
Yeah, they actually got pretty upset afterwards. I think in the moment, it was kind of forgotten. Everyone was already sort of in party mode. But afterwards, some people did get annoyed. So they did want that. Personally, I didn't think it was that bad, because I figure women and men can fly just as well. Maybe mentally, or because women might be a bit more cautious. Or I don't know where it comes from, but somehow something is different about us. It can maybe be a disadvantage. Or you have to train your body a bit to be strong enough to fly certain maneuvers well. But otherwise, everything is basically the same. You
You've kind of anticipated my question a bit. But maybe you can go into that a little deeper. You said that men and women might fly a bit differently or behave a bit differently. Does that show in the way you fly aggressively as a woman, or how you fly aggressively as a woman? Would you say your style is such that at some point you can tell, "That's a woman flying here, not a man"?
So, from the comments of the men, when you're sitting at the launch site in the Garnier, you can really see that. But for me personally, I mean, you can see that the men are a bit more radical and some of them fly very aggressively. And the women are a bit more cautious. Or until the glider actually tears away, it sometimes takes a bit, like milliseconds later or something. And then it doesn't look that intense. But we could do it just the same.
Flying aggressively means, for example, letting the gliders collapse faster. Yes. And maybe women sometimes lack the strength to pull that through so quickly? Or is it really that you say, no, based on feeling, that's not me. I do it gently, I have to fly with feeling and not just use strength all at once and then
it continues. Yes. I think you can pull just as hard there. But with the women, I think sometimes the power is missing because you can see when they take momentum and, like, sometimes they don't take enough momentum. So, a bit... I've found out through flying and training how much you can actually do. And then I noticed, yeah, okay, now I can really do more power. So now it's more the glider that's the limit, because the glider load is too low. And yeah, exactly, that's when I might go up to 15 square meters or something, and then it might look more like the men's.
15 square means the square meters of the glider. What glider size have you been flying until now?
I fly 16 square meters, exactly.
Does one square less really make that much of a difference?
Yes, it makes a big difference. Especially with the small sizes, yeah.
Have you ever flown a 15er as well?
Yes, I already flew 15s in Organien before the competition. But for the competition itself, I didn't really care. I was still too close to switching the glider, so I preferred to stay with my old glider.
From the World Championships. You said, okay, but I also wanted to see where I stand among the men. How many people took part, and where did you end up in the men's category? Or what's the deal with the men's compared to all of these?
So there were only 29 of us, which sounds like so few.
And in some runs, we were the last women. Or was I too? I mean, I was also way at the back, and then sometimes also in the middle of the pack or in the last third, cutting into the second third. So the best run I had was the last one, the fourth run, and there I even finished in 15th place.
15 out of 29, so like, top of the mid-field. Yeah. Yeah, great. I heard the World Championship was your first competition you ever did. Or rather, probably the second, because there was a short competition just before the World Championship that transitioned directly into the World Championship at the same location. One was the Acromax competition and then the World Championship. But was that really your first competition?
Yes, well, paragliding and acrobatic flying. But I did participate in another competition before. That was in waitressing, though. I worked in hotels before. And I did that for 15 years. And I participated in something there. And I was even at the German national championships then.
That sounds interesting too. But I think we can maybe talk about the waitering later. Let's stick to the acrobatics flying for now. So, when you knew, okay, this is my first competition, how did you get the idea to go straight to a World Championship for your first one?
So, the guys motivated me somehow. They all said, yeah, you fly so well, you absolutely have to take part. And then... Then I just thought, okay, I'll train a bit. And then I thought, actually, I have nothing to lose. Because we already had the three spots. No, that wasn't it. But I thought, this is just training. And that little competition before the World Championship was also great that it happened. Because there I was able to figure out a lot of things, like how I should maybe do it better or stronger in the World Championship.
When did it become clear during the lead-up to the World Championships that you said, "I'm signing up now"? I mean, from what point did you say, okay, I have to train for this and all that?
That was in March. I wasn't really sure back then, like, should I or shouldn't I? And then I signed up. And that was actually super cool, because my motivation to train really went up. And because of that, everything went relatively well—my progress happened pretty quickly then.
What does a normal pilot have to do, when you say World Championship, that sounds like... that's top of the world, roughly. What does an aerobatic pilot have to be able to do to be able to participate in a World Championship?
So you do a test beforehand—they call the flight Safety Selection. You have to fly a SAT, a helicopter, a full stall, and a flyback, basically just staying inside it. So, those four maneuvers are flown in front of the jury. They watch to see that you're safe out there. That's actually the most important thing for them. Whether you can't really fly many tricks afterwards or can't collect many points, they don't know that yet. So in principle, the cards are pretty much open for anyone who can fly a bit of agro.
And 29 of them participated, but many more could have taken part?
Up to 60 could have participated, and I believe a maximum of six people per nation. At least one. So, in terms of gender, we also had to... Yeah, let's see. One woman, I think, or something like that. So five of one gender, exactly.
Okay. That means, but at a World Championship like this, people could come and say, I've never flown in a competition like this before, I just want to give it a try. I can do the four maneuvers you need for this Safety Flight Check, so I'll just give it a go. Yeah, exactly. Then you could participate.
Exactly. So I hope the motivation is high for everyone who is still diligently training, yeah.
All you can really say is, especially the girls, sign up. Yes. And maybe at some point you can send a few alibi emails, as long as you can at least do these basic maneuvers, so that you could eventually become an official world champion, not just an unofficial one.
Exactly. Yes. It's just a bit more difficult at the World Championships, because if the weather cooperates, you do up to seven runs. And in one run, you do about four to seven tricks. It depends a bit on the height and the conditions. And yeah, you just have to manage that somehow. And having enough tricks in your repertoire. I think you know that yourself, that you have to assess that. I mean, I believe everyone who wants to compete at the World Championships wants to show something. And that's why you show up with enough tricks in your pocket.
Are you not allowed to repeat a trick?
You're not allowed to, no. I mean, you could, but then there's a lot of point deductions and you'd probably end up further back then.
Okay. That means, if I say there are a maximum of seven runs and I have to do at least four tricks, I would need at least 28 tricks somewhere.
Exactly. The
I have to do that. What's the simplest trick that actually counts as a trick and isn't just normal flying?
Flyback already counts as a trick, where you get 1.0 points for it.
Okay, that's 1.0. How many points can you get for the maximum trick?
2.2. That would be this Superstall to Infinite.
Can you do that?
No. Then I think only a maximum of two handfuls, so ten people at most in the world. At least, that's what I believe I know so far.
If you look at the Top Ten, everyone who's in the Top Ten can also do this Superstall to Infinite, right?
No, not at all. So there are some in there who are really, really good, but they haven't done it yet.
Many of the people listening here probably don't know much about agro-flying, especially agro-flying in competition. Tell us a bit about what determines who does it well. I believe there are some judges who watch it and then give out scores. How many are there and what are the scores based on?
Yes, there is a jury. I don't know the minimum number of people required, but there were four people sitting there judging us. And we fly out. And it's only evaluated once you get onto the stage. Once you've reached the box—meaning you've flown out and are over the lake and then start your run—you also have to be very... box
is the area where you're supposed to stay for your run.
Yes, exactly.
Okay, in this area, the person who currently has the airspace to themselves is the one.
Yes, exactly. And then you do the little ear for a second and tell the jury, I'm starting now. And then you do the tricks all the way down to the water. So the landing on the raft is the finish. And the judging is, 40% is Technical thermal. That's basically how cleanly you fly. Every maneuver is then rated from 1 to 10, just like what you know from the Olympic Games. But then it's all mixed together. Then the choreography, also 40%. There, they judge whether you're doing enough tricks on the left and right. That you go straight from one maneuver into the next. And then they see how it looks in terms of flow, like everything is in flow. And also how you handled the drift management.
So you don't end up too far from the raft once you've finished your run. And then there's the landing, which is 20%. Exactly, that you do a ground spiral and then land on the raft.
The ground spiral is mandatory, though. Or you could also land on the raft—the float over there—and just say, I flew in there like that. And I'm on top of it, so I at least get the landing points because I landed on the raft. Exactly,
That's something you have to decide for yourself. How important are the points I still need right now, because I'm so close to the other person or something. Or if I don't have any height left, of course, you can't do the ground spiral anymore. But for the judges, it's always great when you do something spectacular. Because then you might get more points. So even tricks that you do really radically at the very end—they like that quite a bit.
So, if you do a belly landing on the raft right at the very end or something, do you get extra points for that? Yeah,
Okay, not that. That's because it's still a maneuver, and you have to stop with the maneuver at some point. Otherwise, it would be a safety criterion again. For example, you're not allowed to use Infinity Tumbling as the last two tricks. So there have to be two other tricks after that. But specifically for the landing, if you graze the water with your foot like that. Or do a Jesus Walk. It looks like you're walking on the water because you flair in like that. That always goes down really well.
What did you do great? What did you do well with your landing?
Those were my first spiral landings ever. And it was like, okay, I'm here at the World Championships. And if I had lost everything, I would have always told myself, I have free ground spiral training here. And then I tried the ground pole spiral. And the last one I did was already very close to the water. So the third one went into the water a little bit. And the others, well, I never made it onto the raft. You're always
you landed in the water and you always have to dry out all your gear.
Yeah, exactly.
You probably have two or three rescue gliders with you too. I only had two with me there. You always have to dry those too. That means every day ends with you having to dry a lot of gliders.
Exactly, you're there basically all day. So a competition day is really long because you have to keep drying the gear the whole time. And the next day, everything has to be packed and ready again. So you have to pack the rescue and the protectors, everything has to go back in. And it has to be dry, and it's already quite a lot of work.
But that also means on a competition day, you basically only get one flight, because after that, everything is probably wet.
Exactly, it's actually pretty funny. You're judged for exactly two minutes, or something like that. And everything else around it is just the work. The stuff around it, preparing again, figuring out which run I'm going to do, or just organizing it.
Okay, figuring out which run I'm flying. How do you choose? Which figures do I do now? And do you have a precise checklist where you say, okay, I've already flown that? Or do you have it all in your head? How does that work?
I just wrote down the tricks I can do. And first, the ones that have the high points and that I'm really good at. And then I shifted everything around a bit. And in between, I'd always put in one or another that's medium difficulty. But I also always knew in my head, oh yeah, if I don't get this one, I could still do that one, because I still have that one left. So it's a bit of mental work. But somehow I was like, I knew exactly what I was flying. During the run, it happened to me twice that I didn't get the first maneuver the way I wanted. That was Infinity Tumbling. Because I'm actually still very fresh at learning it, or have learned it. I've only been doing it since April.
And then I got into anti-rhythm, so I didn't stop out. And then I was in this Sat-turn and I just had to do something else immediately. And then I just flew a completely different run than what I had planned.
So you improvised that in that moment?
Completely improvised. Twice, even.
Isn't that completely stressful in that moment? Yes. Or are you in such a flow that you just say it's just flowing?
So, flying is already very much about being in the moment. But I think when you're in a competition like that and have to improvise it, you're even more in the moment. It was just, okay, this is coming next, now I'm just doing this. And yeah, it just happened like that.
Is that what fascinates you about agro-flying, this being in the moment? And is it that agro-flying specifically that bothers you? Or are you so focused that nothing else even registers in that moment?
Yes, that's definitely a big part of what I enjoy about it. I don't know exactly why. Is it the physical effort, that does something to me? No, I don't think so. But it's also the curiosity, being able to pull off the trick eventually. Or rather, it's a bit like when you learn dance steps and then later you can dance really beautifully. That feels good, in a way. For
When you learn to dance, you often go to a dance school. There, they'd say things like "here is the Samba and the Cha-Cha-Cha." Otherwise, it was like if it's classical or some modern forms of dance nowadays. Did you go to any drone school?
No, I might have wished for that at some point, like having a mentor or someone to show me something. But basically, at the beginning, I taught myself a lot on my own. That was maybe a bit risky. But I always kept my safety rules in mind. And later, when you actually get into the agro-community—which has really only been since this year—where the real pro pilots are, they gave me some tips too. They'd watch a video of mine and say, "Yeah, look, you could do that a bit differently," or "Hey, look, you can't do it like that." Everyone has a slightly different style, though. But exactly, it does help. If you have someone give you a quick tip, you get good much faster.
But you just said that you basically just tried it yourself in the beginning.
Tell me about those beginnings. When was that?
When did you
When did you actually start flying, and when did Agro come into the picture?
Yeah, I did, in 2011 I got my paragliding license. That was actually a vacation thing with my ex-fiancé. He really wanted to go paragliding. And then I said, I'll do it too, because I have to know what he's doing. Otherwise, I'm always worried about him. And then I even got the paragliding license in two weeks. No, I only did five flights. And then a year later, we unfortunately split up, I finished it all by myself.
And exactly, after that, I went back to studying in Germany, but I was thinking about flying the whole time. And after all the studying and working for a bit, I eventually moved to Switzerland. And then, I started flying again. That was in 2013.
2014 was also really exciting because I learned a lot on my own. And after that, I started noticing paraglider manufacturers a bit more. There was this company called Little Cloud, a small French paraglider company. They then trained me as a test pilot. And then I had my first SIV training. I actually had never had one before. Because I had to do the test flights there, that's how I got to know it. And later... How did
who noticed you? I mean, you just said you flew for yourself, you didn't do any competition. How does a company like Little Cloud suddenly say, let's ask Gabi if she'll work for us as a test pilot?
Yes, I was in the Engadin and then, just out of curiosity, I tried out my rescue. So it wasn't an emergency or anything. Then I threw out a rescue glider and then...
Just out of curiosity. You said during the flight, oh, you know what,
I still have that
never done it, I'm just going to pull my reserve.
No, it was actually more like, there was this speedflying friend who said, "Oh, I have to pack my reserve." And I was like, "Oh, I have to pack my reserve too." And he was like, "Yeah, just throw it out." And I was like, "Yeah, really?" And then, I was still a real beginner back then, you don't really know everything yet. And then I did a test flight. And everything was super calm. It was that winter air. So it was already like mid-winter. And there was a little bit of snow on the ground. And then I did it. And it was totally easy. Nothing happened. It was even a front container. Yeah, and then he noticed. I mean, he noticed, the boss from the company Little Cloud. And then he... He
did he see that? Was he there on-site? Or did you take a video of it? Yes, I have a
I posted a picture, I think. Exactly. No, no one was there. And that, yeah.
And you've already flown with a Little Cloud? With a Little Cloud glider as well.
Yeah, exactly.
And was that a picture somewhere on Instagram or something? Was there even Instagram back then? I have no idea. When was that? 2013? 40? Facebook
that was it, exactly. There was no Instagram for me back then. So maybe it already existed. Yeah, and then he gave me a bit of the stall... I mean, I always worked my way up to everything because he wanted a lot. Because I'm so light too. I weigh 53 kilos there now. And then I always had the stall stories. Yeah. I flew for the gliders so that he knows the glider flies again. That's always very important to know for the lightweight.
So you were a test pilot for the stall maneuvers mainly? A lot, yes. Not flying many collapses, but mainly stalls with the gliders, because I have to know if it still takes off at that low weight.
Exactly. But also collapse, I flew a lot of that too, definitely. But the stall stuff was most of it, yeah. And later, I don't even know, I was with the Little Cloud. With the Little Cloud glider I also started a bit with letting it spin, so into a helicopter. I mean, for me it was always like, I want to fly an acro glider only when I can do a Twister. That's one helicopter left and then turning into helicopter right. Because I had so much respect for this acro glider. And the step over to the acro glider was then like, oh, that's not so difficult at all. It was actually easier than with the other glider.
Because it's just a bit more dynamic and a lot of things don't have to be controlled so precisely. Or why is that easier?
With the Akro glider, it's sort of, I don't know if it's comparable to a Ferrari, but when you step on the brake, it just brakes. And with the Akro glider, it's the same. You can do things much more precisely, zap, just do something and it works. And the deep stall range is of course also a bit larger, so you're in there more like in a helicopter and don't immediately fall out again, because the glider actually always wants to fly again, like with a normal paraglider.
So that means you did all your beginnings with those small Little Cloud gliders?
Exactly, 18 square meters, yeah. That was my comfort size, because I started out with an Advance Alpha, which was 23 square meters. Probably a bit too big for you. A bit too big for me, I mean, it was great of course, but a bit too big, yeah.
Did you already fly or try any maneuvers with that one as well?
No. No, with that one I only... that was my first high-altitude flight, and what happened was the radio failed. So actually my first paraglider flight, the high-altitude flight after the training site, was just me alone in the air, the radio failed.
That was my experience with the glider. Exactly, but I liked it because, in principle, it gave me the sign that I am responsible for what I'm doing right now, it's in my hands.
That was one of your first flights where you'd say, okay, it's about personal responsibility. Then you had all your "agro" beginnings, as far as I understand, you also did those independently because you said you'd just try something out. Mhm. You pushed your limits and maybe even went over the edge sometimes. How often did you feel like you actually hit a limit where you'd say, shit, oh, that was really close?
Yeah, I don't know if I can list them all out that quickly right now, but I definitely had situations, especially at the beginning, where I... well, exactly, I even went out once in very strong wind and then had to do a ground spiral. That's right, it was actually my first ground spiral. I basically did a ground spiral top-landing. I drifted over the gondola house with the wind and then into the mountains in the back, and luckily there were meadows everywhere. And then I kept doing more and more spirals. Because I absolutely wanted to get down, because the wind was so strong and everything was great. I mean, I think it looked pretty good from the outside. But I was just completely focused on landing safely right then, somehow.
Yeah, and yeah, you've had situations like that quite often. Luckily, I've never had to deploy the rescue parachute yet.
Except for that one time on purpose.
Exactly, I mean, thrown into it out of necessity, as a rescuer. Yeah, that hasn't happened yet. Last year, in October, I twisted my ankle for the first time. Like, you just twist it. Unintentionally. Unintentionally, exactly. And yeah, otherwise, sure, I've had some sketchy situations sometimes. But I'm lucky. So, it's just not the really bad stuff. Because I've always heard that this agro-pilot broke his back at least once. I actually always found that very frightening and awful to hear.
If you're clearly managing to push your limits like that without actually ending up in major extreme situations, what would you recommend to people who might say, "I want to try something in that direction too and try to push my limits"? What's the best way to go about that?
I think you obviously shouldn't be too cautious, otherwise you won't make any progress. But of course, you shouldn't push yourself too much either, otherwise you'll stay in that danger zone for too long. Some kind of middle ground would be great. Or just set some rules for yourself. For example, okay, past 200 meters of ground, I'm not doing any stunts anymore. I just stop there. Because actually, agro-flying is pretty predictable. You have this one box, this space in the air where you practice. And you actually know a bit of what could happen if I do this wrong now. Then I'd have to throw the rescuer or I could still try. So, exactly, maybe just not push too much. Because usually, when people push too much, I see a lot of them throwing the rescue.
And then get better again. But that can set you back quite a bit. I mean, you might get scared or it could even traumatize you. So, it's not like that.
Did you ever have experiences that set you back for at least a while? Or was it always step by step, where you could say, no, I could handle it all?
Yes. Like, when I got caught in that strong wind back then and landed, I walked home and thought, wow, I could have actually died today. But I kept flying anyway. And then in 2016, I was in Japan. And I kind of crashed a bit there. Nothing happened. What I mean is...
Crashed a little bit? Can you really "crash a little bit"?
Yeah, basically I slammed into the ground with a ground spiral. So, I went up like this. I actually just tried to keep the glider level sideways so I wouldn't just slam into it somehow. And then half the glider hit the ground like that. And then I slid along for about 50 km/h. And then there was a pile of rocks that the thermals had caught. And that stopped me. Exactly, after all that, I was pretty much stopped for a short while. So, the next day I flew again immediately and all that. Because luckily, no one saw it. Because it was a business trip. You have to show off the gliders a bit and stuff. But yeah, it did give me some food for thought.
That means, for the business trip, it was for Lidl Cloud too, so you basically flew along as a marketing woman.
Yeah, exactly. Well, the glider wasn't responsible for anything. That was 100 percent me. I was kind of bored. And I thought, I want to do a bit of action now. And in principle, that was a move I made there. And when leading out, you first do a steep spiral. And then the ground just came along. Let
Let's go back briefly to the Agro World Championships, or freestyle flying and stuff like that. Out of all these maneuvers you can do, which one is your favorite?
Phew. I think I have several. I mean, I really, really like the McTwist Reverse and the Cork.
Now explain to a non-acro flyer, what is a McTwist Reverse and what is a Cork?
So, with a McTwist, you fly into a spiral. And when you swing under the glider at the bottom, you pull the brake really hard so that the glider tears away. Then it whirls around quite strongly. And when you've reached the bottom again, I turn the glider to the other side I pulled it to, into a nice helicopter. That was the McTwist to Heli.
Reverse means that you change the direction of the rotation while doing it.
Exactly. Because technically they would be two tricks. There's the McTwist alone and the Helicopter alone. But McTwist to Heli is also a maneuver for competition. Reverse is always when you connect in the other direction.
Is it harder to fly a Reverse than to go directly from McTwist into Heli in the same direction?
I don't really see it that way with that maneuver. But it can be harder. You definitely have to master the Twister very well, so helicopter to helicopter. That's actually the basic maneuver for being able to fly Reverse.
And now explain the Korg again. What's special about it?
Korg, you do a loop into a helicopter. It looks something like this. So you do a spiral again. And then, once you've reached the lowest point, you pull the loop—not without tearing off first, you go up, then you're almost upside down. And then you tear off the glider and go into the helicopter just as you've fallen down. It's a bit difficult to describe. I think you definitely have to see it for yourself.
And why is that your favorite maneuver, or one of your favorites? What makes it what it is? I mean, what makes a maneuver a "wow," like, that's great?
Because it's so dynamic at the beginning and then it goes back into the helicopter, where it looks elegant again. And you're just upside down when you make that connection, because I'm spinning the way right then. It just feels nice. Like, fluid somehow.
How much of that do you fly with your head and how much with feeling? Because you're saying it feels nice and fluid and all that. But at the same time, a lot of it has to be thought through. When do I pull what? And the whole thing is still very technical. What's the breakdown for you?
I don't know the exact percentage. But I'd say a lot of it is done by feel. And I think beforehand, when you have the maneuver and want to fly it, you think it through a lot with your head. When do I have to pull? When? How much energy? Or what to turn? That's maybe more with the head. When you're actually doing it, I think feel is bigger than head.
If you've taught yourself a lot of these things, how did you go about it? Did you say, okay, I need to watch ten YouTube videos? Or did you say, I'll go to Paltakas's agro page and read through the description exactly? Or how do you do something like that?
Or how did you
how you did that, or rather, better said? Maybe I should have... Yes,
That's true. Maybe I should have done it that way. I think you can make faster progress that way. I just tried it first. I do think it's important to have at least a little idea of what it looks like first. If you have no clue at all how to do it, you can mess it up pretty quickly. But I looked at it once and then sometimes asked someone, "Yeah, how do you do that?" And then I just tried it out. That's exactly how I approached it. The first tricks, of course, completely on my own, but now with the bigger tricks where you're a bit more into the community, I've also asked, "Yeah, how do you do a Joker?" But at the moment, no one can really explain it to me properly. So you ask five people, they all say five different things, and in the end, you just try it out yourself a bit.
Are there any specific maneuvers where everyone tells you the same thing? I
I don't think so. Because style always comes into play there as well.
I see that some people fly something really beautifully and others say, "No, that's not okay at all, you don't do it like that." But I think to myself, if it still works, then it works.
How much does that also depend on the glider? Like, you might say the style fits one glider because it reacts a certain way or whatever, but it might not work at all with the next Agro glider. Yeah,
that plays a huge role too, yeah. I mean, the gliders are already very different when you look at the pro gliders versus the beginner agro gliders. So, for example, the Emily and Blackout, I'd judge those as more mellow agro gliders. But if you look at the competition now, in the top ten they're also just flying an Emily and it works. But you have to approach it a bit differently there, yeah. But also with the harness, more specifically. Where I changed the harness now, I had to take completely different weight shifts. So suddenly I had to lean in a bit later, because otherwise it would have been too much for doing the maneuver.
Why did you change your harness?
Because I got the offer to try it out and I was even allowed to keep it afterwards. And that's then for the future for me two rescues and a base system. And I didn't find that stupid in any way, although it took a bit of getting used to, but that's why I just kept it.
That means it's also a kind of sponsorship coming from the scene, where someone says, "Hey, I think Gabi is great and what she does."
Yeah, that's how it was, yeah. Or did you have...
always a harness?
Yes, exactly. That was Beso, who does this Fly the Earth. Beso of Tcharov. Yes, exactly. And he's an Agropilot himself and he tried to make a harness the way you need it as an Agropilot. And I think that's great. So now, as the first woman, I get to try it out. And even if I have suggestions for improvement, we can say we're flying the principle like this. Professional pilots fly the harness and still provide some fine-tuning if anything else needs to be done. But it's actually very mature.
Were you at this world championship? You said you've actually been training consistently since March.
So you were probably in Organia in the typical way, where everyone always meets and where you can fly all day on the magic mountain and all that. That's a certain kind of lifestyle, too. But how do you balance that with a normal life? Because you have to earn money somewhere. I'm assuming that as an agro, even if you're an unofficial world champion, you can't ultimately make a living from agro-flying or anything like that.
It's definitely not easy. Because unfortunately, our Agro scene doesn't get much attention from the media. We're not in football here, after all. But I think it is possible. You just have to live frugally and calculate a bit what you need. I mean, Organia is a mountain, it just gives us these conditions. And you don't even have to use a cable car. And that's actually free. And you just pay a normal rent there, just like if you were at home. So I wouldn't recommend paying two rents. That's why I'm not living anywhere right now, like, for real. I mean, I'm mainly in Austria already, but I don't have a fixed base, like, for real right now.
That means you
you actually lead a nomadic life.
Yeah, right, exactly.
A flight nomad life, something like that. Yeah. How does that feel?
Yes, it feels very free, of course. So, this half-year where I really lived like a nomad, that was super, super, super nice. It couldn't be any better. But I'm also aware that it can't always go like that. Because you have to earn money too. Or you have to find sponsors. And yes, maybe doors will open now, but I also know that I'll have to keep earning money somehow. For example, I'm doing that right now with tandem flying.
You used to earn your money, too. You already hinted at that earlier. You worked as a waitress. And apparently in a more upscale setting, if you say you also participated in a competition.
Yeah. I
I find that just plain curious. What do you do in a waiter competition?
Yes, in a waiter competition, for example, I'd flambé a gin-tomato soup in front of you or fillet a fish. You then have to set a table. Lay a table. So, like a round table, but very precisely. You even have to use a string to make sure you put the fork exactly where it needs to be. And you also have to... Is that then
three centimeters or three fingers wide next to the edge of the plate, or what kind of rules are there?
Exactly, a postcard's width between the cutlery and a finger's width at the bottom of the table and a finger's width at the top by the glasses, and so on. And again, postcards for the spacing between the glasses, exactly. Yes, you also have to be familiar with the food. You have to be able to recognize everything that goes with the meal. So, even exotic things or local things that you might not even recognize anymore. Or spirits—you just have to be able to smell them. So then you have to be able to say what kind of whisky this is. I don't think the brand. We already had a vodka there that was special. You had to say which special one. But exactly, that's how it all was. And of course, in full service. For the evening. A real banquet comes along where you do the service.
Even the direction of movement around the table was important. How you place the bread, how you serve the wine, and all that.
Do you have to train for that too?
Yeah, I even had my own trainer for that. That was the great thing.
What you don't have with Acro, you had when you were waiting tables—that your waiter, what's he called? What do you call one of those? A waiter trainer? Yeah,
Exactly. So I had to win a few competitions beforehand. By the time I even got to this national championship. And then they told me, yeah, then you get your own coach. I think that was so strong in the back of my mind that's why I pushed myself so hard.
And was he tough, as a coach? Like, would he stand there with a stopwatch and say, "You have to do this now," and you're off by two millimeters?
Yeah, he wasn't like that, I mean, he was really nice, but yeah, he was strict. He actually taught all the tips and tricks. And also a bit of what really matters and all that. I mean, he'd been through it himself. That was actually the funny thing.
If you were at a national championship like that, did you win?
No, I didn't win, no.
Why not?
Because I, well, I think I just didn't quite believe in myself, maybe.
Have you made any progress with that today?
Flying has already taught me a nice lesson. So, with the World Championship, it was cool for me because I really believed in myself, or at least started to. And that's exactly what comes from my heart—this agro-flying, I really like it.
Now that you have this title, or unofficial title, Agro World Champion, do you notice people approaching you differently? Or contacting you differently, or do some doors suddenly open? Whatever they might lead to?
Yeah, I don't know why you reached out to me specifically, for example, but a lot of people are congratulating me. Other than that, they're completely normal, which I also like. I mean, I'm also completely normal, so nothing has really changed. Except for the fact that I had a lot of fun at this event.
And yeah, but maybe—I've already received a few offers to do some projects in the future. I'm curious to see. Like maybe a commercial or something. That
That also means projects where you can eventually make money again. So suddenly, for something where you only invested your time for four months and probably your savings—because you're saying, "I'm not getting anything back for hanging in the air every day"—something eventually does come back.
Yeah, exactly, that's what I'm noticing right now. I'm not expecting much at all because of the small scene, but apparently, something is coming out of it at the moment. I can only tell you later what came out of the whole thing.
And what is it like when you're suddenly contacted and someone comes along and says, "Hey, I'd like to do a commercial clip with you"? Is it like you think, "Me? Really?" Or do you say, "Hey, great!"
Well, I'm still quite... I mean, I'm actually rather shy and all that.
You said that at the beginning too, but you're not like that anymore; you're actually telling it quite well.
Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm just happy. Yeah. Because they're interested in me then and I'm trying, I'm happy, I mean, I don't even know what to say. It's just, I'm not being all "uga uga" now, I'm just putting my head down. So I'm staying very down-to-earth, I think, just doing the work and making sure I implement what they want as best as I can.
Do you want to keep going in this agro-area to the point where you say you want to really invest time in it? Yeah. And also maintain more championships. Now I've already won one, at least unofficially, in the women's category. And is it supposed to continue like that, or is it more like you're saying, the next World Championship is probably not for another four years or something? Then I'll make money for three years again, then I'll train for another half year, and then I'll do the next World Championship again.
Yeah, that would be funny if it were that simple. I think you really have to do something to keep up, because I believe the new generation coming up is going to be really strong. And I'm already looking forward to investing more training time into it. I'm also still doing the normal stuff that everyone does, like going to work and such, and just seeing how it goes. There's still a bit of time until next summer, so I'll have a few months where I can train.
It's sort of like finding that work-fly balance somewhere. Lately, you've been putting a lot of focus on the fly side. Mhm. And just fly for yourself. Now you say you're also doing tandem flying. Okay, so you have customers, you earn something from them, and you're basically flying for them. What's the feeling like from the flight? Is there a big difference for you between saying, "I'm flying tandem with other people" and "I'm flying just for myself"? And what does flying just for yourself give you? What do you get out of it?
Even when I'm flying tandem, it's mega valuable for me. I mean, I'm giving something to myself too, not just the person flying with me. So that's definitely somewhat the same, almost the same as flying solo. It's just that when I fly by myself, I don't have to pay as much attention to someone else and can really just let my own needs take the lead and all that.
And if you go flying by yourself now. The other day, I actually saw that on your Instagram, it was a good flying day. You could have gone tandem flying, but then you drove to the Stubaital and said, no, I'd rather practice agro. Yeah.
That's
Yeah, so that's another decision you have to make. Okay, money or fun, or whatever you want to call it. How do you decide, or what made you decide in that moment that you said, no, this has to happen now, I need to get some rotation in the air again?
Yeah, that's always been a bit of a huge conflict inside me, because one part of me is always like, I have to earn money and work here, and the other part says, oh, I have to fly for Agro. And I actually managed to pull off managing both of those on that day. So I drove to Stubaital, did nine flights, almost had to throw the rescuer out. Exactly, then I drove back, even did a tandem flight, and then in the afternoon there were some soaring conditions here, so I did maybe seven or eight more runs. So a complete flight day, super cool, I was mega happy.
Soaring conditions here, that's at Achensee. Yes. Soaring conditions at Achensee. But "run" also means you fly, you soar up somehow, do something down, you don't land at the bottom, but then you soar up again.
Exactly, yeah, that actually works pretty well here at Achensee. You just have to see how strong it gets. And then you can't fly over the water anymore, you have to do it over land. And since the lift runs on and off, you can actually train here until seven in the evening. So maybe a little bit of soaring here in the summer.
From that perspective, it's also a good combination, saying, okay, Rationale during the day. During normal times, I'll go tandem flying, then take the last lift up again, wait for the good conditions to set in, and then train for another three hours. Yeah, that's...
would be the ideal scenario, but unfortunately it's not that simple. So when I've finished my tandem flights and come back to the office, I'm so hungry and actually already so tired that sometimes I just can't manage to go agro-flying afterwards, because you actually have to be somewhat awake or have some reserves left for that. Exactly.
Agroflying, fear?
When I try new tricks, I've been scared quite a few times. I have to admit, there are some phases where I'm very anxious. It really depends on me, for example, when I flew to El Hierro. I really thought the worst. I thought I was going to die on this island. El Hierro is
a Canary Island where many agro-pilots also like to train.
Exactly. We weren't many, though. Maybe ten at most. And it always rotated. But the area is very demanding and often very windy, and it's not very good for throwing out a rescue. Or it can get blown behind a mountain or behind the island, in principle, and then come back into the lee quite strongly. So you always have to be very careful. It's more like a good place to refine everything, to practice new tricks, only for the brave.
Because there's lava rock down there, which can really slice you open. Because it's so sharp, right?
Exactly. I mean, it sounds pretty radical, doesn't it? Like, who actually does that? But I've seen rescue missions from others, and it wasn't that bad. But I don't know if that also has to do with luck.
But you had the fear before you flew to the island. Does that fear disappear immediately once you're in the air, like you're saying, "Now I'm in my element"?
Yeah, you could actually put it like that. The fear is more there when I start overthinking everything again. And what I have to do. But when I go flying, it somehow goes away again. Then everything feels natural again.
So, it means you're not afraid of flying, but rather of the pressures of life, let's say. How do I make my money? Where do I feel comfortable? Where am I actually going to live? Where is this all going to lead? And all that kind of stuff, right?
Yeah, exactly. Actually, I'm more afraid of... I mean, I have the utmost respect for the fact that you can get hurt while flying, of course. But because of that, I try to be as careful as possible—not *too* careful, as I already said, but careful enough to fly. But yeah, more existential dread than the flying itself.
You have a twin sister, too. Does she fly as well?
No, unfortunately not. I mean, it doesn't have to be "unfortunately" if she doesn't want to, she doesn't need to.
Have you ever tried to convince her or say, hey, why don't you come too?
No one from my family has flown with me until now.
Then they haven't either. No,
but they're always far away. My mom is in Brazil and my sisters are in Bonn or Dortmund. But
Actually, you could be like the female Acro-Twins.
Yeah, I thought that too, like a synchronized theme. You guys are also great at
market, actually. Maybe you'll have to convince her after all.
Yeah, I think she has other things she likes to do. I haven't been able to convince her yet. I don't think it's really her thing.
Then she's in Bonn and has home and stuff. You're the nomad. They often say that twins are actually very similar. Now it seems like these are two poles. How do you explain that?
I don't know. Maybe together we're the whole package, because we're pretty connected. And if we were to team up, maybe everything one would want to do in life would be complete. I don't know.
Were you always the braver one of the two of you as a kid? No. If you consider alcohol flying as bravery?
That's true, yeah. I was always more the type who was a bit adventurous and out and about. I loved climbing everywhere and was very brave. Even in the dark, like going right into the middle of the forest and stuff.
Do you also see it as brave that you travel the world alone as a woman?
Yeah, well, of course you might have to be a bit careful in some areas. But I think, regardless of whether you're a man or a woman, you can basically do whatever you want in the world. So, other people might have different views, but for me, it's actually all the same.
Men often say they can just do it somehow. And with women, it's always like, well, then the man comes out with a protective instinct or something and says, the woman alone and all that. But then you're probably driving to Organia, flying there or driving by car alone and saying, then I'll find myself a little room here and organize my whole life for myself.
Yeah. A woman can do that too. I don't see much of a difference there. Actually, sometimes it's even easier, if I'm honest. You have certain advantages as a woman, somehow. With the charm.
the woman, and then, oh, you want to help her out, and then you get the room that the man wouldn't have gotten so easily. Exactly, I actually have the
...got the coolest apartment out of all of them. And people really do help you out a lot. I find that pretty nice somehow. I mean, I don't want that *too* much help, but they are very helpful.
Now, you've mentioned the history, and a lot of it was done by you alone. Now you're getting more into this akro scene, at least that's my feeling, where you say, I now belong to this family of top akro pilots. How big is this family, roughly? Is it these 29 people who were at the World Championships, or is the akro scene actually closer, the one that also meets in Organia, but then there were at least 60 who could have participated? Or what does that look like?
Yes, well, there are actually more; that family would actually be bigger. It's just a shame that some people couldn't come because of some paperwork or travel regulations. I'd say there are between 50 and 100 of these really strong pilots, yeah.
How many of them do you know personally?
Basically, everyone who took part in the World Cup moved over from Organia. So it was like, hello, we'll see you again from Organia. Over.
You could have chartered a coach.
And I think only two pilots, Norbert and Thomas, I believe they joined from Austria and elsewhere.
And everyone else trained in Organia beforehand. Everyone was
right in Organia. That means everyone
they see each other constantly and also know what the other can actually do, how they fly, what kind of runs they actually do, because they've been training here for so long and you can assess that.
Yeah exactly, it's actually pretty exciting, they're constantly analyzing each other quite intensely.
How strategic is a competition like that actually? I mean, at least if you want to fly with the top-tier, you really have to factor in and say, I still remember, the other guy still has an ace up his sleeve, he can also fly that... whatever, Superstar Infinite Twisted or something like that. I have to fly at least a figure worth this many points to still be able to keep up, or how does that work?
I think there are two categories. Some people just do their run, which they've already... I think they've been training for months, like I've heard from some colleagues, "What, you still don't have your runs ready?" I'd sit on the bus heading up the mountain and somehow not quite know what I was going to fly right away. And with the others, they're already thinking, "Oh yeah, he's probably doing that." Even I knew a bit about what the others were flying and thought, "Oh yeah, I need to fly this and that too, otherwise I don't stand a chance." And yeah, it somehow worked out.
Do you actually enjoy this kind of strategy? Or is it something where you'd say, oh, that's such mental work, I'm actually a feel-based flyer. This part of the competition isn't really my thing at all.
Yes, that's actually the only part where you really say, yeah, we're here at a competition and not just at a fun event, because honestly, it's all felt like fun. And you just have to bring a bit of that into it. But it's like... In the end, I just tell myself, yeah, the one who flew what they flew the best, they just win. But the strategic part, I don't find it bad at all.
And if you look at it that way, there are things where you say, okay, for my next competition I definitely need to be able to do this, this, and this figure. And I have to train those now, because I believe that's my next step.
Yes, if I were to go to a next competition... I would do it like that. But I'm also thinking a bit personally, I want to be able to do this trick and that one too, because I want to wow the jury now, so they can see that I actually have even more in me.
Which trick would you most like to be able to do now?
The Joker.
That was already your favorite character.
No, nonsense. Ah,
Nonsense. Then briefly explain, what is the Joker? The
Joker, yeah, that's where you do a tumbling into a helicopter. So not a loop, but a tumbling. You also have to go into a spiral again and then do a tumbling early on so that you stay a bit sideways, not too high. And then, if the Fischer wants to shoot forward, you have to stop him completely. He'll almost stop under you and then slide off to the left, and then you turn him into a helicopter.
Okay. I don't know if people can follow this and visualize what he's doing in their minds right now. It definitely seems complicated.
Yeah, basically brake. Brake, brake, brake, brake, brake. Something like that. Good.
Alright guys, now you know how to fly a Joker. Maybe. It's probably best to watch a few more YouTube videos first, just to know how it works. Do you watch a lot of those kinds of videos? Like, do you always see them, since there are so many of them? For example, Theo de Blick posts new clips and his last run on his Instagram stories every day, and someone else films the other one, and stuff like that keeps getting shared. Do you always go through all that and say, "Ah, I need to see what the others are doing or how that works," or are you more like, "No, I'll stick to my own stuff or just fly my own lines"?
Yeah, I don't watch that many videos, but I'm trying to do it more because I've noticed that it helps mega, mega much. So the more videos you watch, the better you can get at flying the maneuver. And when you watch them, you should probably watch them three times, because then you have to see what the glider does, what you do with your hands, and what you do with your body. And then you could actually try it yourself.
Have you seen that video series by Paul Tackert with all the agro maneuvers, or have you subscribed to it, where you say you watch everything ten times?
I haven't subscribed to it, unfortunately, but I think it's mega cool that it exists, even for those who are just starting out, because that's exactly what you can analyze. And I see it with the new generation, how fast they learn it at all, because it's just served to them like that, so to speak. You still have to be able to learn how to fly, but you have a much better start just to do it if you can visualize it. You
You keep saying "new generation." What defines "new" here—is it just young people, or just people who are starting out with agro now?
I'd say, well, young, but also actually those who are bringing in new things. For example, there's one called Hugo from France who can do that too.
He took a glider, cut out five cells, and put it back together, and wanted to go to the competition with that glider.
With that
was he two square meters smaller, right?
Yeah, that one was like 13.8 or something very small, but he was able to do the tricks really great with it. Unfortunately, shortly before the competition, it just wasn't going so well anymore and he didn't end up doing it. But something like what he does, for example... he just does it, and with the new tricks, they're still trying to develop or test out new tricks somehow. There are still, there are still possibilities.
Is there something like "your" trick for you, where people say, "no one flies it as beautifully as Gabi," or something typical where, regardless of which glider she's flying, someone who knows you says, "that has to be Gabi."
Yes, well, I only did my first Stall Exit in April. I was so scared of taking that step, and then I...
What does "Stall Exit" mean?
So when you do a tumbling, like a somersault, and then exactly when the glider is underneath you, you have to brake out of it so that you don't... so that you get out of the maneuver, especially when you're low. And of course, that takes a lot of courage and you mustn't do it at the wrong time, because otherwise you could fall into the glider. Exactly. And since I've done that, the first attempt was immediately to the helicopter. So I didn't just stop and out, but stopped and turned nicely toward the helicopter. And I think, since I've been able to do this now, I've only stopped normally six times, and otherwise always turned toward the helicopter. So everyone knows me, whenever I stop out, I always turn toward the helicopter. Just for fun.
How else do you get out of the tumblings, if you say that was the first time you dared to do that? How do you usually do it? You could do the tumbling, then probably already.
Exactly, then you just let yourself fall to the side. You just tilt your body to one side and then go down in a sort of roll. It's called an anti-roll. Exactly, that's actually the safest way to do it if you want to learn it, but of course, you need height for that.
And with this stall exit, you just have to tell yourself, okay, I'm going to be brave this time and I'm going to push through.
Exactly. And
exactly then, when the glider is under me, I have to pull properly, and if I don't pull properly, I'll end up hanging somewhere.
In principle, it's not that hard. It's really just a matter of getting the timing right. You can't be too early and, of course, not too late, because otherwise it shoots forward so much. So maybe you need some mental training for that. And I have, for example, if that's a tip, I just did the normal tumblings and then always held onto my risers, because you can actually just hold onto the risers while tumbling, when you're rolling around like that. And then I always moved my hands like that when I would stop. Just like that. Or pushed them to the side, a bit lightly. That doesn't do anything to the glider. And then my arms already know, oh, the reflex has to come then. And then it was very easy.
That means building up real muscle memory beforehand, and then you just call it up in that moment.
Yes, exactly.
Where do you get this mental strength from?
I didn't even know I had that.
Yeah, apparently so, because you say I pull the first stall exit and go straight into the helicopter and all that. You have to be really in that moment for all of that to work, and I think that also has to do with mental strength, doesn't it? Yeah, I
I don't remember exactly what it was like. I rode up in the bus and all the guys were pushing me to do the stall exit. We watched a video and I kept saying, "When? When? When?" as in, when I would do it. They were like, "Yeah, you know when you're ready to pull it. Just do it." And I was so excited and I went out. That was in Olodänis, where there's a lot of altitude. I think I did two tumbles already. But I didn't pull out. And then I thought, "Oh no, now I only have one try left because the altitude was too low." Okay, try one more time. And then I did it, and that was the good attempt. Pulled out toward the helicopter. Exactly, and I did it like, "Oh, this is all super easy. Okay, let's go." Just kept flying toward the helicopter and did more maneuvers.
At the World Championships, you said there were three women out of 29 participants in total. When you're active in the agro scene, is that the typical ratio of men to women? Definitely, yes. Or is it even fewer women in proportion to the men?
Because I do meet women who actually fly Agro. I mean, there were actually six women of us at the Agro market. But yeah, in terms of the ratio, I don't think we can even manage a third. So that's already very few women. They do fly, unfortunately—I mean, they fly more—but Agro flying is maybe scattered across the world, I don't know.
How could we make it so that more women get into agro-flying?
That they know it's possible and not that hard. I mean, you usually only hear the bad stories, and maybe that's why people get too scared. But I think the hardest part of all this agro-flying is the time you have to invest to get good. And that has to do with how I live my life, how I manage to make it happen. That was the biggest difficulty for me; otherwise, it goes quickly.
What I often notice with this, even with normal flying and cross-country flying, is that women aren't as competitive as men in their basic attitude. And then often, the men also take on this weird role towards the women, where they either try to push them a bit, but not too far,
because they
...are actually still like the protectors and all that. And lately, there have been more and more flight schools saying, for example, that they offer special camps for women, whether that concerns cross-country flying or other things, because women flying with women is different again. Would you see it that way with agro-flying too?
I think there would be a different dynamic. But in principle, I don't think we could push as much if we didn't have the men, because they basically showed us the way, how it's done, and we just have to follow suit.
Is there a specific maneuver, or to put it differently, can you imagine yourself developing your own maneuver at some point where you'd say, "This is my signature move, this is mine, and I've given it a name"?
Oh, I don't know, I don't think so. I haven't really thought about that. Maybe I can do something, maybe I can set a record for something, but my own maneuver... I'd have to think about that first. I need to train a bit more, even more, because I have to be able to do all the twisted stuff in FF too, so that I'm ready for something completely new.
Twisted means you fly the maneuvers in a twisted state, so backwards.
Exactly, you look at the glider, it's twisted once, and you just fly the same maneuvers exactly the same way, it just looks different.
Have you done that already, or are you already training for something like that, or did you say, no, I'll stick to the normal stuff for now, that's still a bit too much for me. Well,
I've already started, but really just a very, very little bit. And if I get back to training again sometime, I'd like to give that a try.
I've done some stalls, and like, a stall and then a full rotation and stuff like that, exactly.
Where do you see yourself in five years?
I have no idea, my life is, I plan it so spontaneously, I don't even know.
Okay, shorter. Where do you see yourself in five months?
I don't know what I have going on in five months, but I hope I'm doing some acro flying by then.
Then it's winter, so you'd have to travel somewhere in Chile or where?
Exactly, Chile or El Hierro again. That works
...also good in the winter too, right?
Exactly, El Hierro works from January to April, actually even before that, but sometimes it's not strong enough yet to do all those rotations. Chile is far away, but that would be another idea.
Have you been there before?
Yes, I've been there before, but I wasn't an Acropiloten yet. That was, well, my beginnings, exactly.
Do you have any role models in the acro scene?
Yes, definitely. I mean, when I saw the Top Ten in the competition—actually even the Top 20. I just thought, wow. What they can still almost land on the raft, like us. I really saw a huge difference there in terms of everything one can actually do. And I'm not even close yet.
Do you think you'll ever get there?
If I train really hard, I think it's possible, yeah.
How much do you have to practice to get there?
Wow, that's a difficult question. I don't know, some things take a long time, some don't require that many attempts. But I think the continuity—oh my god, I can't say it. Continuity? Continuity. Oh, I can't say it. Briefly in Portuguese. So you really do have to fly a lot very regularly. I think that brings a lot of success.
Flying a lot regularly—in agro, that actually means training constantly. And probably this whole agro community has the same problem as you. Or what do you mean by problem? Whether you see it as a problem is always a different question. But okay, I have to make a living somehow, and at the same time, I want to go flying and have to train a lot for it. And in the end... if I'm not really at the very top, I'll hardly be able to live off it. How do the others deal with that? Or is that also a topic in the agro community where people talk about it? Or is it the kind of thing where everyone just figures it out for themselves?
Well, people do talk about it. And we're trying to do some projects to maybe get it into the media, or maybe... Because, for example, the sponsors that exist now, there might only be enough for three or five people in the entire Agro scene. And maybe there's something big out there that could support us. I don't know. So it's difficult. But I mean, we're actually doing something really beautiful. And when you look at it like that, I mean, why only football? I don't get it.
When people see you now, what kind of comments do you get? Do you get a lot of stuff like, "You're crazy somewhere"? Or do most people think it's great?
Yeah, well, I don't really know who was watching. I mean, they all find it very... they think it's great. And I don't think they have any idea if we're about to crash or something right now. They're always like, "Wow." Exactly. So they actually always see it as a show, really. Even if you only do one dynamic full-stall, which is actually very simple. And it just... it looks spectacular. Sometimes it lands better than, like, a Joker or something.
Now you said a run takes two minutes. Exactly. For a run like that, for the few figures you fly, four to seven, you train for months. Yes. If not even years.
Crazy, yeah.
What's the drive behind saying, "Hey, I want this Joker and I want the Infinity and I want... I want to be able to do that"? Like, why am I investing so much time in this, when you're actually asking, what is this even good for?
I think if you don't take the competition part too seriously, you already have the motivation because doing it is just so much fun. So sure, the people who want to participate, especially the top ten, they actually want to climb really high. But in the end, they're super happy in Organia and they train in other places and have a really nice life. We also go swimming there and cook together. Sometimes, those evenings are really nice. And sometimes we just hang out at the launch site and take a break. So it's not super strict all the time. That
That means Agro isn't just about the flying anymore, but basically, Agro is a lifestyle.
Exactly, I think so.
And what fascinates you about this lifestyle as a whole?
Just the people you meet there. I mean, they really are special characters, I have to say. And it's not just one type of character, because you might think they all have huge egos, the ones who fly. But that's not the case at all. And it's really nice to watch. There's one who worked in a mine and flies incredibly well. That's Igor, for example, he's from Russia. And the other one has a normal job, makes webpages and really works. He works a normal job almost all winter and then comes back in the spring and summer to train and boom, takes third place in the World Cup now.
The world of Lug. Exactly. Where would you place yourself, in terms of what your specialty is?
Yeah, well for me, it really only started this year that I actually got a taste of what they actually do. Before that, I'd already done a bit—I do a bit of agro, I actually fly agro. And I've always just done it this way and that. But now I've really done it a lot for once. And now I'm noticing, wow, it's going fast now and you can actually get good at it. But how long I need for that depends on the mood, the difficulty of the maneuvers, and all sorts of other things.
What are you dreaming of?
Well, I'd think it would be cool if at least one woman made it into the top ten. It doesn't have to be me, it could be someone else. And if I could maybe show others how it works or explain it somehow.
Like an agro-teacher, so to speak.
Yes. A
Women's Agro Course led by Kabi Fonk. That's a
is a big challenge. But who knows. That
it's a great task.
Or at least the mental preparation or something like that. That's already worth its weight in gold. I
I was just about to stop, but now you're bringing up an interesting topic. Mental preparation. What does that mean to you? How do you do mental preparation?
I try not to be too stressed. I mean, of course, I've already looked at the maneuvers beforehand. I'm thinking about what I'm going to do right away. I keep changing my mind all the time before I actually start the trick. Maybe a different trick will come up. But I think the most important thing is to stay calm.
Do you stay calm? Do you ride completely relaxed? Like, you head up the mountain and say, "Great, the run is coming up now, and haha, I'm going to do these four maneuvers"? Or is it actually peak tension riding up there?
Yeah, sometimes it's mega tension and sometimes it's just pure anticipation. It's not like I'm super calm the whole time. But somehow, in the moment when I start doing it, I'm back in the "being in the moment" state and not thinking about it anymore.
The last complex, I just find interesting. You told me you also took part in that competition with the waiters. And it was so absolutely precise and everything had to be like that. Are there things you [learned] from that hotel management apprenticeship—or I think you did an apprenticeship there?
Yes, exactly.
And all that practice involved, and also being perfect and all that, and also having a certain mindset where you say, I have to be this precise. That you have to function in certain ways. Do you transfer some of that over to aviation, or are they actually two opposite worlds that you've somehow kept separate?
So, specifically with competition or this waitering, because you're so accurate and precise with everything?
It could be both.
Okay.
I'd have to think about that. I mean, with flying, I think you also have to be mega precise; if you're not at that exact point where it breaks or something, then you're doing something else. Exactly, I would compare it to that. But with flying, there's somehow more of a feeling and it's so much stronger. So I think it's more about the feeling than the head.
Waiting tables is more about the rules you have to follow and the requirements. Exactly. And flying is the freedom.
Exactly. Flying is simply your style, too. Just however you want to do it. That's how it actually works.
Is that also like Yin and Yang, what you've been looking for in your life? Like you said, "Hey, I work as a waitress where I have this serving function and I probably have to follow rules and do things correctly, and maybe always smile as much as possible, and do something else, and show a certain kind of friendliness and maybe sometimes a facade or something," and then the other side, where you say, "Hey, there I can just be myself and don't have to submit to any rules from anyone else."
Yes, I have that. That's with flying. You definitely have that 100 percent. So, I think the need for autonomy is very well met. You decide for yourself what you can do, what you want to do. Sure, of course, you have to follow a few rules, otherwise it'll crash into the other one immediately, but yeah.
And is this experience of freedom, is that something that can also make you addicted?
Yes, I've asked myself that question more than once. Whether it might even be an addiction or something like that. Especially because it would be really interesting to know what's actually happening with our adrenaline, for instance with an acro pilot, because my adrenaline actually rises more with completely new maneuvers I'm trying, or like with the competition—there, I was really, that was super high adrenaline. But otherwise, I can fly these tricks quite more relaxed. But I've also noticed that I'm not as restless as I used to be sometimes; if I haven't flown for a week, I'd get really uneasy. I don't feel that as strongly anymore. So something has changed. I think I've just become more content with both, I don't know where that comes from.
That means, with so much time you've basically dedicated to flying in your life, then flying doesn't have to tug at you so much and say, hey, you have to. I
I think it was a need of mine, a strong one. And I've dedicated the last half year to that. And that's why it's so balanced again now.
Exciting. Well, I hope it stays balanced with all the new projects that might come up now and the new offers that come in. And who knows, maybe a commercial where you're somehow flying past some dunes in front of some luxury cars and stuff like that. Thanks. Definitely exciting. I wish you all the best.
Thank you very much. Thanks for letting me take part and for letting me tell you a bit about myself.
Yeah, great. My pleasure.
That was episode number 63 of Podz-Glidz, featuring agro-pilot Gabi Fonck in conversation with Lucian Haas. In the show notes for this episode on the Lu-Glidz blog, you can find some further links regarding the topic of agro-flying. The Podz-Glidz podcast is part of the offering of the paraglider blog Lu-Glidz, which can be found online at www.Lu-Glidz.blogspot.com. Lu-Glidz is spelled L U minus G L I D Z.
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