To climb somewhere, just spread your wing and take off—I still find that fascination, even today, truly sensational. You don't find that kind of freedom anywhere else, but here in the Alps, we can really choose our take-off and landing sites, and that is the ultimate freedom for me.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the cosmos of paragliding.
Today with Stefan Zaug, and I'm Lucian Haas.
What Hawaii is for surfers, the Bernese Oberland is for paragliders. Especially when it comes to hike and fly. There are so many mountains there that you can hike up and fly back down. At least Stefan Zaug thinks it's an ideal training environment for perhaps the most beautiful form of flying. The 31-year-old Swiss man found his great passion in hike and fly. He trains for it almost daily, and his big goal is to participate in various competitions of this sport and, if possible, reach the top ten.
His motivation and ambition have already earned him a spot on the X-Alps Academy team, a development program by Hike and Fly grandmaster Kriegel Maurer and the sponsor Teamwork. Since the beginning of this year, he has even risen to the position of team leader and coach there. How he got into flying and Hike and Fly, what methods he uses to train for this discipline, and which beautiful, exciting, and also critical moments he has already experienced—Stefan Zaug tells you all of this in this 84th episode of Podz-Glidz. If you enjoy Podz-Glidz, feel well-entertained, and perhaps learn something from this podcast episode, then please support my work as a patron. This is very simple and possible without any obligation.
How? You can find that out on the website of my blog Lu-Glidz, specifically on the "Fördern" page.
Stefan, I looked at your Instagram account and it says, pretty prominently at the top, "Life begins at the end of your comfort zone." Where does your comfort zone end?
Yeah, I think that's relatively difficult to define. I just like it when there's a bit of a physical challenge, but I think that in terms of flying too. It's cool when you're being challenged and not just always staying in your comfort zone, keeping your pulse in that same zone. So, staying in the safe area, but still moving forward.
Where would you generally place paragliding? Is it mostly still a comfort zone for you, or is flying actually always something that goes beyond the comfort zone?
No, I wouldn't put it that way. I mean, it's often within the comfort zone, and you definitely shouldn't push yourself too far beyond that, but you should still try new things and constantly develop. But you have to keep those steps small so that you can improve without having some kind of accident.
If you look at your paragliding now, what would you say is still a comfort zone in flying? And when do you go beyond that? I mean, which part of paragliding is it where you'd say, "Ah, now I'm beyond this comfort zone, but this is where I start to feel alive"?
Yeah, I think in competition, you eventually reach a point where you step outside of this zone. And then you also have to be aware of whether you can still change it. So, staying at 100 percent throttle right now and flying into the clouds might not be the smartest thing. But... maybe trying something new, like turning into a tight space or fighting your way up where you previously thought it wouldn't actually work. It's then really cool when it works out. So I think that boundary will be somewhere in that region.
Tell me about the last time you realized, like, "Okay, now I'm really stepping out of my comfort zone." What was that?
Last weekend we had the Jura Hiking Tour. We flew 120 kilometers through the Jura. It was a great day. It was a hike-fly race. The goal was actually to get back to the hut from a starting point, which was the finish line. And that route was 120 kilometers. Unfortunately, I made a mistake. After about 50 kilometers, I stalled and had to hike up somewhere. And those who know the Jura know that the launch site options are significant—well, a bit limited. So then we started with two other pilots on a Delta ramp. And that was really perfect for getting the glider up there and then out over this steep cliff.
I think it was controlled, so everything was clean, but my pulse was a bit elevated in that moment.
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. Did you feel particularly alive there?
I think the feeling afterwards was really cool. So I have to say, I did feel alive.
What is it like during the flight? Do you scream out your joy in a situation like that? Like, you start off the ramp and then it just bursts out? Or do you only realize it much later, like at the end of the race, saying, wow, that was awesome?
Yeah, I think so. I'm not really the emotional type. I don't show it that directly. But then, when I reflect on it, or maybe even while flying, my heart rate is up or I'm just more focused on continuing to fly. And I really like that feeling, yeah.
What does paragliding actually mean to you personally?
Yes, it means a lot to me. I mean, it's really gone from a hobby to a massive passion. So paragliding combined with sport, with hike & fly, is really the biggest passion I have.
Tell us a bit about your journey with paragliding. When and why did you actually start?
For many of us, that desire actually came from their father. And then I started my training relatively early, like in my teens. And then I took the exam at 17. From the very beginning, it was a huge passion of mine, but not like it is today, because light gliders and things like that weren't really around yet. So Hike & Fly didn't really come to me back then. You'd just hike up somewhere from the mountain railway or something for a different launch site. But really starting from the bottom was difficult back then.
Before we dive deeper into Hike & Fly, I'd like to take a step back. You said your father encouraged you. Did he fly himself, or did he just say, "Hey, give it a try, that would be something for you"? Or how did that come about?
No, he actually flew himself. He has the license too. Yes, he still flies today. Not as much as I do, but he's still involved and enjoys listening to my stories. And he's still interested and involved in the scene, yeah.
And did he... I mean, were you inspired to say "I want to do that too" just by watching him? Or did he basically push you toward it and say, "Hey, come along, do it too. We could go flying together or something?"
Yes, it really was like that. I think we chose a hobby together. And sharing a friendship, a passion together, also bonded us closer. Even today, yes.
So, you still go flying with your father often today?
So, they're several evening glides or something in that direction. They're not the long cross-country flights we do together, but maybe we'll hike up somewhere and then glide down comfortably.
I mean, these are flights that probably won't go beyond your comfort zone. But are they still particularly nice flights that you can do together with your father?
Yes, I really appreciate that. I mean, I really enjoy sharing my passion, also with other people. And it's just nice to see those smiles. Maybe it wasn't that challenging for me, but spending time together is always nice.
You said you got your license at 17. Today you're 31, and you mentioned that Hike and Fly wasn't really a thing for you at the beginning. When did that actually start to come up for you? Yes,
that was about four years ago. My girlfriend's mother came to me with a newspaper clipping and showed me that there was a Hike and Fly race happening in our region. And until then, I had actually played competitive indoor hockey. In Switzerland, we call that Unihockey. It's relatively well-known here. So I was active in sports, but flying-wise, I was just doing it as a hobby. And then I thought, yeah, that actually sounds pretty cool. And I went there for the first time. Not really with high expectations or with much preparation. I had my grandfather's hiking poles back then, I still remember that. So I was traveling in a really rudimentary way.
But I still managed to end up somewhere in the middle of the pack.
Did you even manage to put them anywhere in the harness?
Yeah, they were really easy to fold. So that worked. But they didn't have a handle, just a button at the top. So that was really... it's a funny story.
So, you haven't had much success in this competition yet?
No, I was somewhere in the middle of the pack. And I really, I just went along with them. And I noticed it at the top too. I was somehow out with the leading group and was completely exhausted after the first climb. But yeah, the gear too, somehow. I think it was twice as heavy as what I have today. But yeah, it was definitely interesting.
And this competition then laid the foundation for you to say, oh, I want more of this?
Yes, exactly. So I really became a fan of that and did some projects myself. Not really on competitive stuff anymore. So, from Emmental, where I grew up and still live, I went all the way to the sea with the paraglider in 2018, basically across the Alps. And yeah, basically in a hike and fly manner. But it wasn't stressful or anything, not competitively. Simply, if the weather was nice, I kept going. And my girlfriend accompanied me back then. And if it rained or was very windy, we stayed there. And that was a cool experience. And then it just kept growing, step by step.
Where exactly does the fascination of hike and fly lie for you? Yes,
It's actually quite simple to put into words. Just hiking up somewhere, simply spreading out your wing and taking off. I still find that fascination, even today, to be truly sensational. You don't find that kind of freedom anywhere else. If you look at gliding or other aviation sports, everything is just littered with rules. And with us, we really still have very, very many freedoms. Sure, we have to observe the airspaces and wildlife protection zones. But here in the Alps, we can really choose our take-off and landing sites. And that is the great freedom for me.
That means you still have a normal life. You have a career and everything else. But in your free time, hike and fly plays an enormously important role.
Yes, exactly. I'm normally employed, but I've chosen my job so that I work in Thun and have flexible hours. That way, on good days, I can start at 6 a.m. and maybe head out by 10 or 11 a.m. And then I can spend most of the day outside.
How often do you still use the cable cars?
Yeah, the mountain lifts are actually only used if we had an event beforehand or if it got late in the evening, or for something like acro flying. Then we'll take the mountain lift sometimes. But normally not. We just avoid those areas because it's also cool to be out alone. And that hustle and bustle of people isn't really my thing.
Now you just said that crowds aren't your thing. But you do participate in Hike and Fly competitions, which are also relatively crowded. So you always have 50, 60, maybe even more people at times who are actually participating, who then start there and hike together or something like that. What actually fascinates you more? This Hike and Fly, where you can hike up somewhere on your own? Or is it really the competitive character that appeals to you?
Yes, over time the idea of competition has come into play. So I'm actually training specifically now to get much better at these events. But I think you also get good if you enjoy what you're training for. And I do. So it's training for a competition, but it's still associated with a lot of joy.
How do you actually train? Yes,
It has different aspects. We have the physical side, like endurance. We have the flying side—XC flying, competition flying. I was actually just at the Newcomer Challenge a week ago. I've already done several competition flights. But just actually training to fly fast, we're very good at that in Switzerland. With the Swissleague, we have the opportunity, even as a non-pro pilot or something, a ZCC glider pilot, to fly along. And to fly the 60 kilometers or 100 kilometers as fast as possible. And you learn an extreme amount there. And also the SIV training. So it's already very diverse, I think.
Ground handling is also very important, that you master the gliders. So, take-off and landing techniques. Yes, so it actually covers the entire range.
In your view, which area of Hike and Fly training is actually the most underestimated or most neglected?
I just think that if you're only fit, you won't get very far. I think flying is more important than fitness. We've had people at events who are extremely fit. Maybe they come from cross-country skiing or I don't know, somewhere where they already have the basic requirements, but maybe haven't been flying for that long. And if you make the wrong decisions there and think, "I'm not starting now, I'll just keep running," and then the good pilots start there, the gap quickly turns into a lead. I think flying is more important than physical fitness, but both count in the mode.
How did your Hike and Fly career progress after that? You did that first competition. Have you taken part in every competition you could get into since then?
Yeah, I did the Eiger Tour for the first time. Actually, it was mostly for fun. Just to see how it works, like going from hut to hut. I spent a lot of time in the mountains otherwise, doing mountaineering and skiing. And then this racing style actually really appealed to me. So it's basically flying out from huts, the Eiger Tour. That means you start in Grindelwald and then do a multi-day tour through the Alps, visiting different alpine huts—they're called SHC huts. Yeah, I really wasn't good at that. I was somehow, I don't know, in the back of the pack for sure. But I just enjoyed the adventure and the landscape immensely.
And then, yeah, I heard about this X-Alps Academy for the first time and actively reached out to the trainer back then to see if I could join. And then it basically grew from there.
The X-Alps Academy was founded by Gregil Maurer—or rather, he still runs it today and passes on his knowledge there. Tell me, what is it actually about, or what is it like over there?
So, the X-Alps Academy was actually founded by Gregil in 2018. That was the initial spark because the Swissleague, our league, didn't want to start a Hike-and-Fly league back then. They said, well, it's not really necessary or isn't needed. Then Gregil took matters into his own hands and, with the sponsor Teamwork, formed a group that specifically supports the athletes. So that's how it came about, and then, for example, Patrick von Kennel or Sepp Iniger, who are actually well-known people, were involved at the beginning, and I was never that good and I'm still not as good as they are now, but it was a closed group and they trained together.
Then sometime in 2020, they actually opened the X-Alps Academy to the general public. So there was this Pro Team, where the pros were still involved, and then the Race Team, which was basically accessible to everyone who could fly reasonably well and was fit. So, if you had participated in a competition once, you could show off, like, "Yeah, I did this and that," and then there was always training in the Bernese Oberland on Wednesdays in the evening, and yeah, that's how I joined. Every
Wednesday training, what does that mean? What do you do?
you guys? Well, back then it was like we just did a lot of intervals, also somehow with the small gyms. Going up somewhere and then just flying down together in the evening. Just physical training and flying training. There might have been a task involved, like landing top three or four times or hitting a point at the end, or doing something playful like that.
And who decides on a training session like that? Is it just Kriegel who says, today we're doing this and that? Yeah,
The training is actually set by the team leader. So, Kriegel—at the beginning it was Vici who took part, the first team leader, he was also involved with the X-Hubs. And they actually built that up together, and then came Bernhard Zen, who was actually my first coach. So he's now the coach of the Swissleague Hike and Fly league. And yeah, it was actually this team leader who was responsible for leading the training, not Kriegel.
Okay, so that means he decided what you guys do every Wednesday?
He was there too and did that with us, exactly. Kriegel was also involved a lot, but the training, the program, actually came from the team leader.
How much input does Kriegel give in something like that? If you say he's there every now and then?
Yeah, I think he's very, very individual in how he coaches. You can just notice it while going up the mountain; suddenly he's with this person, and then he's back with me or someone else. And then specific things are targeted, and that's the super cool thing about it. It's not like, I don't know, they just show you stuff that you might already know half of. They really look at where this athlete still needs help.
Looking at your own experience, where did the X-Alps Academy help you the most?
Yeah, I think there are three points that helped me progress. First, it's the fun and the camaraderie. I met people who love the same things I do. Then there was the adventure in general—trying something new, moving forward in this. I've experienced so many launch sites, including difficult ones, and I was suddenly able to handle them. The third point is definitely the learning and progression. It's about sharing things with each other, but also being able to benefit from the others. You
You just mentioned, for example, difficult takeoff situations—I was eventually able to handle those too. Did you specifically train for that? And how do you train for something like that, where you're moving towards the more extreme terrain, especially during takeoffs or landings?
Yeah, we train things like that a lot in the winter. For example, there's a well-known spot in Lenk where the ski slope is actually perfect for that. You can take the lift up, and then practice top landings all the way down the route. Then you start again on or next to the slope, take the lift back up, and do about eight to ten flights a day. That way, you can simply simulate these speed landings or difficult start situations with a tailwind and such.
So, if I've understood that correctly, you start at the top but land five, six, seven, eight times on the way down. Exactly. Right, yes. And are there fixed points where it says, at this height, we have to? Or does everyone just do it however they want and pick the steeper or flatter section? Or is there actually like target landing training, where you say, at this spot, he has to flare properly?
Yeah, we've been doing it so that we went out in teams of two. And then, taking turns, one would land and the other would try to land as close to the first one as possible.
And you do that in the winter because you can't get hurt as easily in the snow, because if you bomb into something there, there's still a lot of snow and it cushions the impact.
Yeah, exactly. So there's a really significant difference between whether there's snow there or just grass if things don't go well.
How good are you now at those kinds of speed landings, where you fly in with a speed bar and then pull out just before touchdown to convert that extra speed into altitude so you can land more softly?
Yeah, I'm definitely not as good as the pros among us. But it's always getting better. I mean, sometimes I still come up a bit in between, but now I can handle it better so that you can correct it during the approach. But I'm definitely still in the learning phase and not at all at the point where I'd land at an extremely difficult hut or something. I'm more the type who flies over the top and checks what kind of wind we have, and then chooses the safe option.
Would you say that starting and landing in this kind of difficult terrain is one of the most important skills for a hike and fly pilot?
I don't think it's the most important skill, but it's simply one of many points. And if you really master it well, you can of course save some time.
And how often does it happen that pilots overestimate themselves in situations like that?
Yes, unfortunately, too often. Right now, as I said, the Eiger Tour is just more difficult because we land at the huts. And yes, unfortunately, many accidents happen every year. Maybe "many" is an exaggeration, but accidents do happen every year. And I think it's just harder to land like that when it's really thermally active. So when we're talking about 11 to 5 or 1 to 5. Landing at a hut that is really, really kicking like that is already a challenge. And every now and then, accidents do happen there.
Would there be ways to hold such competitions as they are, but still somehow lower the potential accident rate?
It's difficult. There are various approaches being tried. We discuss this in our group too. What could be done? But first of all, you want to have a competition. And you want to have an adventure race. In our region, the Prealps, there are many races that happen without accidents. But right now, I think the Eiger Tour and also the Vercofly in high-alpine terrain are really tricky. And you have to know what you're doing there. I've heard approaches where you're allowed to fly over the hut from 1 to 5 o'clock to get the point, and you don't have to land right on it. That's been discussed. I find that a very interesting approach.
So if you don't have to land there at all costs, then ultimately... Or if the circle, the buoy so to speak, is simply set larger so that you can land on a snowfield or something and get the point that way. Yeah, basically. I'm more on the safe side and tell myself, I'd rather land 400 meters away from the hut, hike back to it, and start again from there. Better than getting injured, yeah.
Have you ever injured yourself during a competition?
Yeah, that's funny right now. I injured myself last year during the Eiger Tour. But it was during a landing in open terrain. We were actually on our way back, the return leg of the round. And I was with a friend at the base of the clouds and we just couldn't get over a pass. So I decided to land there. And it was relatively, I don't know, it was about 2,500 or 3,000 meters. I landed there and it was really like a moonscape, so with big rocks. And I didn't see a fence and flew into a barbed wire fence at speed.
And I stood up out of the gas when I went over that barbed wire and then fell onto my knee. I just couldn't hold the fall on my legs anymore and slammed my knee down. So that was basically it, but I still went further and those who know it could still climb towards the Blümlisalp-Hütte, about 1,500 meters of elevation or so. I could still walk. I stayed overnight up there. And then we started again at 6 a.m. in the morning, off we went. And I already felt, yeah, the knee is a bit swollen. And then I wanted to step on the speed bar when flying out and realized I couldn't really bend my knee anymore to reach the speed bar. And then I knew, yeah, the Niesen would have been the next point and we landed down in the valley.
That's no longer possible. And then I went straight to the hospital and it really was just a bruise. So nothing was broken or anything like that.
So, because of the bruise, your knee was so swollen that you couldn't really move it anymore, right?
Yeah, exactly. It also wasn't helpful that I spent the night at that altitude. So the Blümli-Saubhütte is, I don't know exactly, over 2,500 meters. And for the body, the recovery just isn't that good.
I mean, that probably happens to you more in a competition than when you're just doing it normally. What is it about competition that makes you say you're willing to take those kinds of risks? You could just go on nice bivouac trips or something else.
Yeah, but I think that's exactly what it's about—leaving your comfort zone. I mean, I think it happens to me quite often during training too, where I'll say, "Okay, I've had enough, that's fine." But when I'm in a competition and I'm out there until nine p.m., and then I have a nice descent at six p.m. and still have to push up somewhere, that's just cool, yeah. It's cool.
Does that just give you new energy, or what is it?
Yeah, exactly. So the competition fever is already there. And you can see on the live tracking, oh, the guy behind me is already there. And yeah, that's the competition fever that kicks in.
From your perspective, are there any other downsides to hike and fly besides this potential risk of accidents?
That's still hard to say. So, regarding the downsides, I think the biggest one is already the risk of accidents. The other things are actually nice things for me personally now, yeah. Nothing negative comes to mind right now because it's just such a free sport.
Let's go back to the X-Alps Academy. Since the beginning of the year, you've been there officially as an organizer and coach. How did that happen?
Yeah, it was actually pretty funny. We discussed it. In Fiesch, it was the Rallye-Bog-Trophy. That's just a short race of a few hours. So you really push hard, then take off with small gliders, push hard, fly, push hard, and into the finish line. And then you're somehow done, I think we were at the finish after about three hours or so. And then the topic of conversation was this new Hikingfly league and whether the X-Alps Academy is still needed. And we were such a tight-knit group at that time. We had our own WhatsApp group. There were about 60 or 70 people in that race team back then, I think.
And there were about 12 or 13 of us who met up a lot to train together. And Krigl noticed that it existed. And then he was suddenly in this group too. And he joined in on the discussions and all that. And that was cool. And then we stayed overnight in Fiesch. And the next day, we did another X-Alps Academy training session. Low-wind thermals flying was the topic. We had nine-meter risers back then. So it wasn't necessarily low-wind thermals flying, but it was interesting. And then we also practiced top landings and stuff. And then we landed at the bottom. And then Krigl suddenly came up to me and said, "Hey, Steffu, are you coming with me in the car?"
And then I said, yeah, okay, I'd love to. I got into his car. And then he said, yeah, he'd think it'd be cool if I could take that over. And then we discussed the framework together. Actually, the trip from Valais back to the Bernese Oberland.
And that's how you got this job.
Exactly right, yes.
But you still have your other job. Is what you're doing now basically a volunteer position? Or do you get a small fee for it as well?
I get a small fee for it, but it's basically just covering my expenses, yeah.
Does your X-Alps training, what you do now as a coach, look different from the one your previous coach did?
Yeah, we've set our goal a bit differently now. So, we have this Hikingfly league, which, for example, holds Wednesday training in our region. And we go there whenever we can. So, there are these regional leaders all over Switzerland now. And they conduct these training sessions. And that's organized by the Swissleague. And we've simply agreed to do an X-Alps Academy training one or two weekends a month. That means we meet up and do something together. So, as I said, it's usually adventure. We really try to do something more special, like just hiking and flying together.
Then we stay overnight, so there's that team aspect behind it. And the next day, we usually head out right away. Or we try to fit in a soaring session. Something to make it really varied. And yeah, that's normally two weekends a month. And we also try to go to competitions together.
Speaking of competitions and the X-Alps Academy: when you compete there, can you tell that you have some kind of advantage over the others?
I'd say we're not these top-top-top pilots right now. But we've made a lot of progress. We can see that now in the X-Tech XContest, for example. If you look, we have a few pilots. We're not that many anymore; there are about 15 of us still in the X-Alps Academy. We have a few pilots who have already done over 200 flights this year and are really committed. And I think we have a lot of potential. It's just that at the last event, we had four from the X-Alps Academy in the top ten. No one really made it all the way to the front. But through this team, we all get better. You can already notice that.
How do you behave as a team during the competition itself? Do you suddenly see the others as competitors with whom you normally always train friendly? Or do you basically still help each other out during the competition itself, and does that form a sort of small subgroup?
We actually always have an online meeting before the competition—for example, if it starts on Friday, we have one on Thursday—where we go over the route together, check the weather, and see what kind of day it might be. We can also still talk on the phone during the competition in the evening, and that happens quite often, meaning we're on the road together even during the race, because I think our level is relatively similar. And specifically for me, I have a very good friend with whom I practically do every race—well, sometimes we say, "Okay, we're splitting up now, let's see how it goes," and two hours later we're flying wing to wing together again. And I don't think the idea of competition is that big for us, because we don't normally move in the Top 3.
Do you want to move into that top 3, or is that not that important to you, but rather just saying, I enjoy the competition, but in the end, the ranking is secondary?
I always have the goal of actually being in the top 10, because last year it was actually top 10, and this year I told myself top 5 in the competitions, and I'm trying to pursue that, and I'm not even thinking that far ahead that I might maybe end up at the very top or something, I'm just trying to improve and take it step by step.
But that means, if someone participates in the X-Alps Academy or something like that, is it not fundamental that everyone says, I want to get to the Red Bull X-Alps myself at some point?
No, that's not a requirement, but if someone wants that, we're here to support that person and also work with Kriegel to see what it takes for him to get there.
Would you like to go to the X yourself?
-Alps? I'm doing the Dolomiti Superfly this year, and I think that's the next step, and I want to try it out first to then really say whether I want to, or don't want to, go any further.
I mean, the Dolomiti Superfly is a bit of a smaller route, but in many ways, the demands are still relatively similar. How do you handle the training when you look at the Red Bull X-Alps athletes? They already do it—at least those at the front, and they're almost all professional athletes who basically work on it full-time leading up to an X-Alps, and stuff like that. How much time do you put into preparing for something like the Dolomiti Superfly?
Well, I don't actually train specifically for just that. We've just done a season planning. So for us, it's now professional—it's become more professional through the Swissleague, Hikingfly—so we were able to have our bodies measured at a sports test in a sports clinic and then really look at things like heart rate and so on, where it's good to train, where I can improve. And I think for me, the physical training is maybe five times a week, about two hours is pretty normal. Really two hours
per day, that's quite a lot.
Well, we have the infrastructure here, of course. So when I finish work, I can be on the mountain ten minutes later and do my training there, and that's actually, yeah, it's also mega cool. I can write to the group to see if anyone's joining, or we have our fixed days where we train together. And especially for intervals and stuff like that, it's cool if you can do it in a group because you can push yourself a lot more than if you go alone. Yeah, it's still just a lot of fun.
If you look at the Red Bull X-Alps, it's been coming up since the beginning that next year is the 20th year the Red Bull X-Alps are taking place, and all the winners have always come from Switzerland. In your opinion, what's the reason for that?
I think, as I said, the mountains here are brilliant for that. The Bernese Oberland in particular is perfectly suited for this kind of sport. But at the same time, it's also a huge passion. It's really incredible how many people fly here. And there are also very, very many good pilots. I'm honestly amazed every time you go to a Swiss Cup or something, there are really 100 very, very good pilots there. So that's already intense. And if someone from that group decides on hiking fly, then within 10 years, 2 or 3 years, that person will be fit and flying very, very well.
And then the step is much smaller than someone, I don't know, from Spain or somewhere, who never had the same kind of promotion as here.
If you look at people who want to get into Hikingfly now, those who are saying, "I'm an aspiring Hikingfly pilot," what would you want to give me as an aspiring Hikingfly pilot to take on my journey? I...
I think you just have to set realistic goals. So, progress step by step. Really set small goals for yourself. You don't have to do 2,000 meters of elevation gain on the first day and then also believe I have to do a 100-kilometer flight now. Just maybe try the local mountain you already know, where you might have taken the cable car up before or by car, you can also hike up and then fly it once. And just get a feel for it. Because it really is different when I hike up somewhere, I'm exhausted, and then I fly. So it's definitely good at the beginning to already know the region and to know how I want to fly the landing zones, etc.
And then just keep going step by step, maybe do something bigger, something longer, and gradually get used to the sport. But always keep in mind what I'll do if Plan A doesn't work. Like, if I fly into a valley and it doesn't work out with the altitude, I always have to have a Plan B—where I can land safely.
And how early would you recommend starting with possible competitions, or should you maybe wait until relatively late to first gather the skills for yourself?
Yes, gathering the skills first, alone, is certainly good. Or in a group of friends. That makes sense, but you can then start with—I wouldn't say right away, and it's not possible for us, but for example, with a private tour. We have three different classes of competitions here. These are the C, B, and A competitions. And it's currently being developed, but the idea is that if you want to participate in an A competition, for example—which is a difficult one like a private tour, a "Werkhoflei" or something—you have to have completed a C competition and a B competition beforehand. I don't know the exact rules, but something is being established where you gradually work your way up and don't just start with the king of disciplines.
That would mean a simple competition would be one that doesn't necessarily obligate you to land somewhere up at a hut, but rather is really about hiking up somewhere comfortably and then—or what is comfortable? Well, probably hiking up somewhere against the clock, of course, but where you don't have high demands on the take-off and landing areas, and then it scales up accordingly.
Exactly, right. So a C-competition, for example, in our Prealps, you can take off and land without any problems practically anywhere. There are so many launch sites, and down below there are huge meadows where it's no problem to land. So it's definitely in the same ballpark, yeah.
What advice or what tip would you have liked to receive yourself earlier in your pilot career?
A piece of advice?
Yeah, looking back at the learning curve you've been through, is there anything where you'd say, oh, I wish I'd found that out much earlier?
Right now, with cross-country flying, there are probably a few things that come slowly where you think, yeah, I could have learned that sooner too. Especially things like cloud flying—looking at clouds and knowing where the thermals are, generally thermals, hotspots, that kind of stuff. But I think that just comes with time. And I think I approached it relatively well. I was 23 when my father was sentenced with the paraglider, and I was there. And that was quite a blow at the time. But I think I needed that back then, that it really didn't spiral out of control.
Yeah, maybe I put it a bit complicatedly, but I just think you really have to take it step by step and not do difficult things too early. And that's actually what I did.
Regarding your father's accident, you said you were there. That means you were both flying and then he crashed.
Exactly, yes, he actually crashed into his hands and broke his back. And we were there with the helicopter for a really long time. I was also part of the rescue response. So I was securing things, watching, and doing stuff. And that really left a mark on me. Even for today, I just saw how fast it happens and how different the world looks. But fortunately, he's doing well again today. So, luckily, there were no permanent injuries left.
Did you have something like a small trauma from that time, or something where you noticed that you flew differently afterwards than before, you know, before you observed this accident and were involved in it?
Yeah, well, for a while I didn't fly much anymore, practically nothing at all. And that definitely knocked me a bit. And at some point, the passion or the desire to fly came back. Then I started again and it kept building up more and more.
How did you get past that, or was it just time—all the wounds eventually faded and you said, "That's far enough in the past now. The other side has taken over again."
Yes, I think through analysis. You can then look at what went wrong. I also looked at a lot with him. I spoke with him a lot. And I find that an accident like that is always something tragic. But if you can then see what went wrong, you can learn from it. And I think I also try to analyze accidents like that and see how to make sure something like that doesn't happen to me.
And what went wrong back then?
Yes, very likely, from the looks of it, a stall occurred on the right inside side, so due to braking too hard and then hitting a tree and getting the Stabilo caught. And when he catches the Stabilo, it just sweeps the whole glider away. And
then it just threw him against the slope.
Exactly right, yeah.
Let's take a look at something nice to wrap things up. What are some of the really beautiful hike-and-fly experiences you've saved?
Yes, there are countless beautiful things. I mean, I'm really quite active on Instagram, and you can go through your archive to see what you've posted in your stories. And when I look back two or three years ago, when it all started, practically every weekend something cool happened. We went, I don't know, up somewhere on skis, did a great descent, and then the snow got bad, so we unpacked our little gliders and flew down. And yeah, there are countless things. Like staying overnight somewhere with the X-Ups Academy and then going up a very high mountain the next day to fly out at sunrise. I mean, really, that's brilliant.
That's when you also say, you really feel alive.
Exactly, yeah, right.
Where you then get out of your comfort zone. Mhm. Stefan, thanks a lot for the great story. You're very welcome. I wish you lots of success, especially at the Dolomiti Fly. I think it's called the Dolomiti Superfly. That's the next really big competition you have coming up. Before that, are you also taking part in the Eiger Tour again this year? Exactly, right, yes. Well, don't get injured at the Eiger Tour so that you can actually participate in the Dolomiti Superfly. That's my goal, exactly. Great. Then thanks for sharing and all the best.
Podz-Glidz is a podcast that belongs to my Gleitschirm-Blog Looglights. There, you can also find the show notes for this episode, No. 84 Mountain Run - Flyers with Stefan Zauck, along with some additional links. Looglights is completely ad-free online at looglights.blogspot.com. Looglights is also written as Lu-Glidz. If you enjoy Podz-Glidz, please recommend the podcast to your flying friends. I would also be happy if you leave a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You are also very welcome to support Podz-Glidz and Looglights financially as a supporter. Podcasts and blogs, especially given the regularity and professionalism with which they are published, involve a lot of time and also some costs.
Research, editing, recording, cutting, hosting, and much more. You can choose the amount of your contribution completely freely. Give as much as you think is right or what such an offer is worth to you. It can be a one-time payment or a recurring standing order. Every amount helps keep Podz-Glidz and Looglights independent and ad-free in the future. If you're unsure what amount might be appropriate, I'll make you a completely non-binding suggestion. How about one euro per podcast episode and two euros per reading month on Looglights? Even added together, that's still cheaper than the subscription fees of a classic magazine. Of course, you're welcome to listen to a few episodes first and read Looglights over several months and only make a lump-sum contribution later.
Payments are very easy to make via PayPal or bank transfer. You can find all the necessary details on my blog Looglights, specifically on the Support page. Until next time. Ciao.