I'm so looking forward to the moment I see this image, when the first crate lands where people are starving, where people need medical help, and that together with emergency gliders—so our beautiful sport—somehow, connecting that, when the first gliders from us can save lives.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the
paragliding universe. Today with Fabio
Zgraggen and
I'm Lucian Haas.
Anyone who has been paragliding for a while knows the problem. At some point, the permitted service life of a reserve glider expires. You buy a new one and are faced with the question: what do I do with the old one? It's too good for the trash, but only marginally suitable as a sun sail, and so on. That's how many pilots still have old rescue gliders lying around somewhere. There must be hundreds, probably even thousands of them. Now imagine someone comes along with a truly brilliant idea for repurposing them. That someone is the Swiss Fabio Zgraken. In 2015, together with a few paragliding friends, he founded a small aid organization, the Humanitarian Pilots Initiative, or HPI for short.
This episode, number 108, is about what they are achieving now.
In this episode, Fabio talks about the Super Versatile Airdrop System, which he helped develop. This project aims to use old paraglider reserve chutes in disaster relief. They can be dropped from smaller transport planes to deliver aid supplies with precision. This is even much cheaper than using a helicopter. In the summer of 2023, the first major relief operation of this kind will take place in South Sudan. Fabio reports on the background and how the paragliding scene can provide a great humanitarian service with decommissioned reserves. Maybe you still have an old reserve chute lying around? Then just donate it to the HPI.
You can find more information, such as the necessary shipping addresses etc., in the show notes for this podcast episode on the Gleitschirm-Blog GluGlides.
Fabio, maybe a slightly unusual question for a pilot. How many people can fit in an inflatable boat?
A lot. It can be up to 180 or 200 people. Where have you
have you ever seen 200 people sitting in an inflatable boat?
That was over the Mediterranean, where we do aerial reconnaissance flights. And unfortunately, I've seen those overcrowded dinghies out there on the sea many times before.
How often do you fly over the Mediterranean to keep a lookout for dinghies?
A few years ago, that was still very frequent. It was actually every month. And I just became a father. So I've just had a longer break of about a year and a half. But I'll be going back into operation in the next few weeks, exactly.
What does going on a mission mean? What exactly do you do there?
I work for an NGO, so a non-governmental organization, in aerial reconnaissance. We fly a plane over the Mediterranean. And we keep a lookout for people in distress at sea, for boats in very difficult situations. We try to coordinate the rescue and support the effort to get the people to safety as quickly as possible.
And then you fly out from Switzerland in the plane or how does that work?
Not exactly. We're stationed on Lampedusa. That's a small Italian island in the Mediterranean. And that's our home base, so to speak. So I actually fly by plane. I fly normally with the line to Palermo and then change to our small plane, where we fly this aerial reconnaissance.
What kind of small aircraft do you use there?
Right now it's a Baron. That's a twin-engine, piston-powered light aircraft. So it's not that small anymore. But that sounds like you used even smaller machines at the beginning. Much smaller, yes, exactly. So in 2015, when we started out, we started with an ultralight, in quotation marks—and end of marks. It was a C22. It was even still fabric-covered. So you can imagine, the wing is actually covered like a delta wing. Yes, we flew the first missions with that one.
Is that even suitable for flying over water for that long?
Yes. It was suitable. We obviously put a lot of thought into how we could do this safely. And we concluded that ultralight aircraft are very well suited because they have these no-glide features. So if we have an engine failure, at least we can land safely on the water. And of course, we also had a life raft with us, where we could have survived for the next few hours until rescue arrived. So it was already very safe with the ultralight. It was the most efficient way to help the people. We could also fly with the plane for a very long time. And accordingly, that was the first step that made sense for us.
How does something like that work? Do you start at Lampedusa and then fly out somewhere into the Mediterranean and say, we're going to criss-cross over there and keep an eye out to see if there's an inflatable boat with people on the sea somewhere? Or how do you plan something like that? I mean, what exactly do you do?
It's like this: we know the escape routes where these people have to land relatively well. They are off the Libyan coast. So we fly mainly in the sea area between Libya and Italy. That is sometimes the sea area where there are the most accidents. Well, you can hardly call them accidents. They are tragedies that happen there. This year alone, over 600 people have already died on this route. And the landing spots for these escape boats are somewhat known. So you can already narrow down the search area a bit. We fly in international waters off Italy. And that's a section we fly where we perform such search patterns and then keep a lookout.
Is it always a pilot who flies and keeps watch at the same time? Or is it a pilot and then a spotter or whatever, who sits next to them with binoculars? Or is it all just looking out at the water with your eyes? How does that work?
Initially, with the ultralight, it was of course a pilot and co-pilot in one. That was a very small crew. Now we're up to four people. That means a pilot, possibly a pilot in training. And then there's the so-called TACO. The tactical coordinator. You can imagine it like this: when there's a lot going on at sea, it gets very hectic and very complicated and complex. There's a lot of coordination work between the different rescue centers, aircraft, and ships that can or should provide help. And the TACO, the Tactical Coordinator, handles that coordination. And then there's also a Field Media Officer.
That means this is the person who photographs everything and captures it on video. It's also about being able to trace which ships have actually been rescued and which haven't—being able to assign them. And, of course, it's also about documenting the whole thing, because human rights violations often occur in this sea area as well. And... and this FMC, let's call him that for precision, handles that documentation. So that's the third person. And then there's a fourth spotter. So we actually have two people on both sides of the plane looking out.
That all sounds very well organized. But how adventurous are these missions over the Mediterranean still for you?
We haven't been talking about adventure for a long time now. I mean, you have to look at it. In those pioneer days, I'd say, from ultralight. We just take off. We want to help people. And everything is new and you have to figure it out. There was still a lot of adventure in that, I'd say. Not adventure in terms of risk, or a big risk we're taking. But in the sense that everything is new. And now, it's all organized with high professionalism. For us, it's commercial pilots who normally sit in airline cockpits. The whole organization in the background with the crew house. With all this tactical coordination.
It has become very, very professional by now. And it has had nothing to do with adventure for a long time. Yes, and adventure can perhaps be misunderstood—like we want to have fun or something. That is far, far from it having anything to do with adventure in a positive sense. Rather, from the very first days, we saw very dramatic scenes. And we were able to really make a difference and help. And the whole thing has now developed into really professional structures. And yes, we are currently operating two aircraft from Lampedusa, and there are now well over 50 people involved working on this project.
You co-founded it back then. I mean, Humanitarian Pilots. You just said it was 2015 or 2016. How did that happen? How did you and probably a few colleagues come up with the idea? Like, "Let's try something like this. We have to help somehow, or whatever." What drives someone to do that?
Yeah, the empathy. That's maybe how it started a bit. It was a very exciting domino effect that developed. It started as a sort of impulse. The story begins with me and a very, very good flying friend of mine, with whom I also co-founded the flight school back then, we were out flying in Malpstein. I have to say, paragliding. And as is often the case after nice flying days, we met by the fire in the evening to have a BBQ and just sit around. To wind down the day. And during that time, my friend found out that he was going to be a father.
It sort of snowballed like that. We were so happy, and it was a really great evening. Such a nice atmosphere. And somehow, it was also around 2015 when so many reports were coming in from the Mediterranean about so many people dying, people fleeing dying. That conditions on the sea were extremely difficult. And just like many pilots probably know, we ended up philosophizing by the campfire and thinking about it. And we somehow also realized that we might have asked our grandparents questions about World War II—here in Switzerland, for example, as Jews.
We live very close to the border here. When the Jews were standing at the border, we also wondered what was going on with our grandparents when they saw that. And that these people are in need and somehow nothing can be done, or nothing is wanted to be done, or can be done. We already wondered what this child will ask us in 10, 15 years, when they are sitting in school and telling about how over 15,000 people died in the Mediterranean alone. Within a few years. What do we tell this child? Because we can't say we didn't know. And that was also exactly the time when I got my fixed-wing aircraft license. And then one thing led to another.
We thought, well, we have a plane now, we can fly planes. Maybe we can help a bit with our skills as pilots. It was really like a hand we wanted to reach out in this difficult situation. With these images we have—the ones we've seen from the Mediterranean. And then, in that same night, I actually googled where there are aid organizations active there. And I sent out the first emails, just writing, hey, do you even need a plane? Can we really make a difference? Can we help people in this difficult situation? And it was really just like, we didn't think about it much at all. I just wrote it because I was curious to see what kind of answer would come back.
And the next afternoon, the first emails came back. And they were along the lines of, hey, yes, absolutely, when do you start? And of course, it was a long road until we were actually in the Mediterranean for the first time. But it was really like, if you ask, you have to be able to handle the answer. And the answer was very, very clear: that a plane is urgently needed and could make a real difference for these aid organizations, who are mainly out on the water with rescue ships.
Can you still remember your first flight over the Mediterranean, where you actually saw the first people in distress at sea? What did that do to you?
That was, of course, a very, very moving moment. We had a long preparation period where we gathered the necessary know-how, of course. You don't just fly over international waters off Libya for no reason.
We prepared for three-quarters of a year for this point. We worked on it day and night so that we could actually fly. And then it was just surreal when we actually flew out there. Yes, when we saw the first boat, we naturally functioned first and foremost because we had a task. We coordinated this rescue, we set the coordinates. And so emotional... Emotionally, it really hit me only after I finished my task, took off my flight suit, and when we were back on land, it moved me how difficult the situation is, how incredibly huge this sea is, and what a tiny nutshell these people have to set off on for this escape.
And how unimaginably long that journey is, and how difficult it is with a boat that's so slow, just meandering along like that. It was an inflatable boat. As you just asked so pointedly, there were about 150 people on that inflatable boat. And these boats are barely maneuverable. They just drift so slowly, slowly towards the north, towards Italy. Seeing those people on that boat, it sent a chill down my spine. What has to happen for... for fellow human beings to have to put themselves in such danger? And of course, it stayed with me for a long time afterward, whether that boat was actually rescued, because we didn't know that directly at the time.
But in the evening, the news came in that they were actually rescued. And I felt a huge weight lift off my shoulders. Yeah, it was such a mix of deep concern and, on the other hand, immense joy that we could actually make a difference, that our idea worked, that we could really make a difference for people in a very difficult situation and support them. It was like this strange mix of feelings between joy and concern. And it became clear to me then: we want to keep at this, and we want to keep advocating so that this is no longer—hopefully, at some point—necessary.
So, you're a paraglider pilot. You run your own flight school with colleagues, Free Wings. How does that fit together with this Humanitarian Pilots Initiative, especially in terms of time?
Yes, the timing is obviously a big challenge. The good thing is that, originally, the same people who founded this initiative also founded this flight school. That already means we're all pulling in the same direction. And that gave me a lot of opportunities to step back from the flight school. I knew that my colleagues would keep the school running and that I could pull out for a few weeks at a time, or even for months in the summer. And that gave me a lot of freedom, and I was able to organize it so that it was possible. But it was still a huge challenge, juggling everything like this to keep this ball in the air.
And above all, we didn't even know at the beginning, when we started, how big the whole project would become and how much time—and especially how much energy—the whole Mediterranean project would demand. I can really count myself lucky that we are such a strong team, that we're all pulling in the same direction, and that we get to live out these dreams. And that wouldn't have been possible at all without our own flight school.
When you're out there in the Mediterranean and see the suffering of the refugees, don't you sometimes doubt whether a hedonistic sport like paragliding is actually the right thing? Does it really fit in these times? How do you reconcile that in your soul?
That is a very good question. It's a question that has occupied my mind again and again. How do we live here? What freedoms do we have? And for me, it's always about—now, I can only speak for myself—I'm happy every time students take to the air, when it moves something in them. I often see that in the flight school, flying isn't just a pure sport, but that it moves something very personal for our students, that it changes a lot, that it builds self-confidence, that it provides a balance for a stressful everyday life, that a lot of positive energy is generated—I'll just say it, a lot of joy.
And especially here at our flight school, I have to say, I'm delighted by how great the cohesion is, how big the community and the way of living together are. Accordingly, I am convinced that it is just as important that we live this and create something that brings us joy. And I believe that also moves a lot of things that you can't even imagine, things that aren't directly related to aviation sports. I can speak for myself now. The Mediterranean is also a very large psychological burden. It's associated with a lot of stress. And that's where paragliding comes in. Paragliding is a good balance for that. And I'm quite convinced, personally, that I wouldn't have gotten through many situations if I hadn't had paragliding.
That it allows me to switch off my head, recharge my batteries, and find my flow again. And one thought that always accompanies thermals, of course, is that I am very privileged to have been born in Switzerland, that I had the freedom,
to even earn myself a job as a flight instructor, somehow. That's also totally surreal. And I get to go paragliding in one of the most beautiful areas in the world. That's a huge stroke of luck. And I'm also convinced that a privilege always comes with a whole lot of responsibility. And I really want to live that. I want to live it for myself, that a privilege also comes with a responsibility. And I want to live out part of this responsibility with HPI and make an impact. And I see now, we'll surely get around to talking about other HPI projects, like the air drops for example, how much joy it is to bring these communities together and activate them.
And how much feedback we get from the paragliding scene, or from the aviation scene in general, when we talk about our projects. And maybe we can also motivate one or another to simply implement and do something. And I think that also connects paragliding a bit with these projects.
Now you've just mentioned it. So we can transition to that. Aerial drops, you said. A sub-project of the HPI that you're running under the acronym SVAS. Exactly. For
What does this acronym mean? Exactly, it's a very technical acronym. It's the Super Versatile Airdrop System. The idea is that we collect decommissioned emergency gliders from the paragliding sport. And together with the Flugsau in Switzerland, we have developed a system that allows us to airdrop relief supplies from the aircraft. And this is actually a technology or a logistical solution that until now was included in the military sphere, which does this with very large machines and high technical effort. And we have now managed to get a system to the point where we can extremely cost-effectively airdrop food, medical supplies, etc.
can drop.
So from a conceptual standpoint, you take an old paraglider rescue chute that can carry a payload of maybe up to 100 kilos, or up to 200 kilos for tandem rescue. You then hang some kind of container underneath it, which contains these relief supplies. And you can just drop them from the plane like that?
Exactly. Well, of course, there's a bit more to it than that. There's a lot of development behind it, as well as training for these drop crews. But the system itself is extremely simple. You can compare it a bit to a D-bag. You know that from paragliding—the D-bags where paragliders are packed into and acro pilots jump from helicopters or hot air balloons. And our system actually works quite similarly: we have a container, we fold the emergency glider into it, and it opens automatically. So this container stays attached to the aircraft with a line. And then you drop the payload—the so-called payload, the relief supplies—out of the aircraft, and they open automatically.
And we do that relatively low. We open them at about maybe 35 meters above the ground. So, just as the glider opens and swings out, the box hits the ground, reaching it pretty quickly. And that's how we have the big advantage of being able to do very precise airdrops. So, near villages or on a sports field, we can hit the spot very, very accurately within 30, 35 meters.
Is every old paraglider suitable for that as a reserve parachute?
Absolutely, yes. We naturally do a triage of the models. We know that a cross canopy is, of course, somewhat more pendulum-stable than a very old round canopy. We do a bit of a triage there. But it really also depends a lot on the relief goods that aren't extremely sensitive. It's about food, about medical supplies. And there, we can also use very, very old gliders, really very old round canopy gliders. On the contrary, the old gliders are built a bit more robustly. You can maybe even reuse them a few times. I'm also curious to see if they're still that good when the first ultralight rescues come to us. Yes, we can keep them in good shape even after several drops. And that way, we can assign different gliders to the most diverse payloads.
We can of course also drop very sensitive material, but for that we use special containers that protect these goods. And then we naturally use the best gliders we can get our hands on.
Will the system be
already been deployed somewhere? Not yet. In July, we're flying to South Sudan, and that's when we'll really be making our first real deployment. We had a test deployment in Kenya last year, which was very positive. And out of that, this big project in South Sudan emerged, which is now really getting underway. And because of the conflict in Sudan—well, in the north of South Sudan—the whole thing has been delayed a bit. But as of now, the timeline for July is finished. We've set it so that we'll be going on deployment starting in July. Will you be out there in South Sudan too? Exactly. I'll be going to South Sudan to train the Loadmasters.
That's also the point—that was one of the ideas behind the project—that we want to make the whole thing available to the local aid agencies. So our vision for the project is actually to train our partner organizations, conduct audits, and also check the overall quality from time to time to ensure that the gliders are being used for the right purpose. So that we basically only handle the training for the partners, so they can provide this aid independently. So, if we're allowed to dream, in five years we might have ten different projects all around the world using these emergency gliders. And we will collect these gliders in Europe or in North America.
And then folding these emergency gliders, doing the triage, preparing everything, and then sending them out to the various projects. And the first stage of all this is, of course, the training of the local forces who will then be flying these missions on-site over the long term. Now
...fly local forces, you say eventually. Who are you cooperating with there? I mean, are they, I don't know, large organizations like the Red Cross or something else, or who do you have there?
Exactly, exactly. We're in South Sudan now, and we're with MSF, so with Médecins Sans Frontières. There are five departments; MSF is divided into different countries. And there are five of those departments on the ground, and we'll be working very closely with Médecins Sans Frontières because we always see ourselves as, let's say, enablers of aid. We're the pros when it comes to flying. Exactly. But we aren't—we can't be the pros—when it comes to where specific aid needs to go on the ground or how the entire coordination of rescue in the Mediterranean works. For that, we need other pros who know their stuff. We are truly the ones who make aviation know-how accessible.
and make this aid possible from the air with innovative solutions, exactly.
Did Médecins Sans Frontières come to you, or did you approach them and say we can offer you something here, would that be of any use to you in any way?
So the first step was, of course, that we approached them. No project manager is going to wake up tomorrow and think, "Yeah, what if there was some crazy air-drop system that could work?" So we have to sell that first, I'd say, in quotation marks—and closing marks. We aren't profit-oriented, but of course, you have to do a lot of convincing when you show up with such a... I sometimes call it a bit of a hippie idea. If you just walk into a meeting and say, "Yeah, we recycle reserve chutes, you know, paragliding and stuff," you're already at the point where many people stop and wonder if the paragliding can actually be steered, where they're flying to, and so on. It's all so abstract that you have to do a lot of convincing when we show up with recycled reserve chutes.
And a major step in that direction was taken last year in Kenya, when we were able to demonstrate the system on-site. And I have a gut feeling—I might be able to tell you more in a few years—but we are convinced that a real domino effect is happening right now. More and more project managers are hearing about our system. Naturally, word of mouth spreads relatively quickly.
And you also have to see that with our system, for example, we can transport aid supplies six times cheaper than with a helicopter. We are just as precise, we are much faster, we can fly longer distances, and we are six times cheaper. So, if we get a product onto the market that is six times cheaper than the helicopter they're currently using, that naturally opens up completely new possibilities. And MSF is already in the process of switching a large part of their entire logistics in South Sudan, because until now, for example, they were dependent on setting up their bases only at airports because that's where they had the logistics, right?
But there were many places where there are no airports and the aid doesn't reach them properly. And with our system, we're at the point where MSF is setting up outposts in places they wouldn't have otherwise. Because they now have the logistical capabilities. I mean, you have to imagine that until now, they've been dropping rice and sacks of beans from planes just so their crews and staff had any food at all. But when it comes to somehow getting oil there so they can fry something to cook, that got difficult. It just bursts when it hits the ground. Yeah, it obviously smashes, right?
And they really, you have to see, they have huge logistical problems in South Sudan that we can now solve with our system. And when I saw the light in the project manager's eyes, when he saw how it works and how easy it is and that their personnel can be trained on it relatively quickly and what possibilities suddenly open up for them, that really motivated me to see. I believe we're onto something big. And the feedback so far has been simply great. And I'm really looking forward to the first boxes landing where they're needed, where they help people and where we can maybe make a small difference again, hopefully in July, after a long preparation period.
You just said you're expecting a kind of domino effect from this. But a domino effect also means, okay, this could be an exponential growth in demand. Is there even enough reserve parachutes that can come from the paraglider community for that?
We'll see. I'm very curious. I really have to say, basically, the feedback is incredible. We planned—what is it now, four years ago—the whole thing started when we did the first test drops with the system. With the development. And there, in Swissglider, the Swiss magazine of the association, we placed a very small ad and wrote, hey, if you have reserve parachutes, send them to FreeWings. We can use them for this project. And reserve parachutes kept coming even without us doing much PR. So people are so motivated and word of mouth is spreading. And I believe, especially the paraglider community, has an open outlook.
And I think it's also a huge motivation to somehow be involved. And it's a way for us as a paraglider community to really make a statement and make a difference. I mean, with the rescue of the old gear, it goes to a place where it's actually needed. And I think that motivates very many people to send them in. From that point of view, we were very surprised by how many reserve parachutes are coming in. And I think now that the project is getting underway and where we can really say where the reserve parachutes are going, and we can also be with you and do some more PR. I think it will then pick up speed a bit more, that even more reserve parachutes will come in. I would be totally happy about that. But logically, there will eventually come a point where there might not be enough.
We will recycle as many as possible and give them a second life. But we are, of course, already working on solutions for how we can produce emergency parachutes or parachutes very cheaply. Those wouldn't be emergency parachutes where I still have a second life. I would definitely stick with that. But they would safely bring our goods to the ground. And there are also approaches where there might even be biodegradable gliders, so that we can also stay cost-effective and have a solution in our back pocket. But I think if you look at the numbers of how many emergency parachutes are sold every year and we can perhaps really establish in the scene that this cycle is closed and the gliders then also find their way to us when they are no longer needed.
And that's really well known among the schools and clubs and private pilots. I think we can make a really, really big contribution to that. Even if it might not be quite enough. Who knows, maybe it will be enough. How is it...
with the durability? I mean, normally a reserve parachute is always rated for eight years, ten years. Some of the newer ones, you can even use them for 15 years in the paraglider sector. If they come to you, would you say that for our purposes, as long as they haven't already been in the water, hung in a tree, or something else, it's clear from the start that we can use them? Are they really built to be so durable that you can say, I'm not worried at all?
Yes, we have a dummy emergency glider. For the first drops, we took the oldest emergency glider we could find to somehow build the worst-case scenario. And now we have a lot of drops for the certification, for training our own crew, for Kenya and so on. We have an emergency glider there, we already have it. I think there are over 30 openings on it. And it still holds. Yes, we just had a training in St. Louis and that was the first time I saw an emergency glider that actually had a tear. It still came down well, but a seam popped open. And that's after many deployments. So these emergency gliders, they work perfectly with the system.
So we don't have any concerns about them not holding up or anything like that.
Probably, if you open them from a D-bag, the opening might be smoother than if they come out of a very compactly packed package and the air hits them much harder all at once. I can imagine that. I don't know what your experience is with that.
Yeah, but compared to your SIV training, where I've seen many openings, the impacts on the aircraft are quite a bit harder. The aircraft flies with it, and in the drop, we're maybe at 100 knots, something like that. There, we're at 180 km/h and the rotation room is maybe a bit less. So there are some pretty heavy impacts. And of course, we fold them with an opening delay. So we fold them specifically so they don't open so quickly. But there are some pretty intense impacts. So it's already a lot heavier than, say, with a paraglider.
But you also worry less about it because there's no human hanging on who wouldn't survive in an emergency; instead, you just say, okay, the crate will land a bit harder, but if it's three sacks of beans or something like that, they'll still make it.
Exactly, exactly. And accordingly, we do the triage, of course. And if it's an extremely important part that has to be jettisoned, there are power generators, there are all sorts of different payloads that we drop. In those cases, we naturally do a triage of the gliders. And we know, that's like the A-class of the gliders. It doesn't have an opening on it yet, so not from the plane. And we obviously deploy those where it has to be absolutely certain that the cargo lands safely. But for, let's say, food etc., even if a line snaps or a seam rips open, that doesn't make that much of a difference. But I have the confidence that it will still arrive safely at the bottom.
From all your observations during development and the many test drops you've done, is there anything you've learned about emergency gliders that can be projected back onto paragliders? Like, can you say, I now know which emergency glider works particularly well or something like that?
Yes, there are of course certain glider models where we know that—well, the big thing is obviously the pendulum stability. It's still quite crucial for us that the load oscillates out and comes straight down. And we already see differences between emergency gliders that still oscillate more and those that are in a stable descent after two or three movements. There are definitely differences. But of course, there are smaller differences. And what certainly isn't much of a revelation is that, of course, a simple round canopy oscillates significantly more than a cross canopy, etc. So, seeing that isn't really a huge piece of news.
Nothing surprises me right now. Aside from the SIV training experience we have from the school, I wouldn't say so. I am curious to see what surprises me, and what we haven't had yet are really those ultralight rescues with jettison lines that are built really minimally. I'm curious to see if they can withstand multiple openings and how quickly you might see aging there. Because, for example, in South Sudan, the emergency gliders always come back to the home base. They are deployed, collected by the local crew, and then, if a helicopter happens to go there every few weeks or so, they are loaded up and brought back to the home base.
And I'm curious to see if there's any aging visible with the brand-new ultralight rescues, which is naturally a bit faster. Which is somewhat to be expected. It's nothing new. Probably also in the
South Sudan might also have a lot of humidity in between, because it's probably rainy season when you're flying there, otherwise you can't even get into those specific areas and stuff. So, these are probably not conditions that are necessarily conducive to a rescue glider.
No, no, absolutely not.
So, I don't think there are any massive insights to be drawn from our context.
How did you guys come up with this Uridee, this SFAS, so this deployment system? Was it like, you're sitting together again at a barbecue after a flight and you say, "Hey, I have this old emergency glider, what do I do with it now?" How do you come up with that idea?
Yeah, pretty similar context. It was after a flight over the Mediterranean. While paragliding—at the time, we were stationed in Malta. And in the north of the island in Malta, there are some coastal cliffs where you can go paragliding. And we often went there to fly to balance out the missions. And during that time, unfortunately, we experience this again and again, that we're condemned to just watch from the plane. So we can coordinate a rescue and call for help, but we can't do anything ourselves. And unfortunately, there are always situations where you can't do anything and the help arrives too late.
And we were, yeah, in a pretty desperate situation in the plane. And eventually, thoughts came up: couldn't we somehow drop a rescue island there? And then, in the context of us all being paraglider-experienced pilots, the idea came up that with a glider we could maybe do something so that this rescue island hits the water slowly enough and so on. For various reasons, it's not suitable for the Mediterranean now, of course, but that's how the initial idea emerged that we could drop something with the glider. And there was also the situation, for example, where rescue ships were out there.
And they needed a... a... a... a part for a repair on the ship. This situation was actually current at the time, that a ship had to drive back specifically, out of the rescue area, to carry out a repair. And if we had already had the system, we could have dropped something off so that they could have stayed on duty. Yes, and that's how the idea with the emergency glider came up. And we then pretty quickly tinkered around a bit and tried it out and... What does tinkering mean,
try it out? You guys sewed a container that you can hang onto it down there and then
did you go onto a bridge or how did you test it? Exactly, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, that was a pretty funny story. So, as usual, we're the kind of people who just do it. We said, oh come on, let's just build a box and throw it off the bridge. So we just took a box, suitable for a glider, and threw it off somewhere in our area. That's nothing new. We knew that worked. But... again, somehow you have to start. Of course, it worked great from the bridge. It opened and we measured how fast the box came up. And that was all within the norm, obviously. And that was... that's where we started. And then it was fun. We contacted Flugsaar. So Andre and Simi from Flugsaar.
That's a forge, a sewing workshop in Switzerland. You might know them. They sew really well. They have really good watches and products. And they are such real... I don't know if you've ever had the pleasure of meeting them.
Not yet, unfortunately.
That would be another podcast, chatting with Andre and Simi. They have some good stories too. In any case, they are just such mega-great tinkerers in the best sense. They do top-notch work and are always tinkering with some kind of ideas. It was clear to us relatively early on that we wanted to look into this with Andre and Simi—we knew them from back in the day from competition flying and aerobatics. And then we contacted them. Andre, we want to build a system to get stuff out of the plane, and they had the idea. And we'd actually already organized planes for the first test drops. We already have everything—planes organized, permits obtained.
And we built a wooden box. Sam and I, my business partner and I. And we brought it to the workshop. And we basically just said, yeah, we need two or three straps that have to go around there. And can you cut those for us, then we can throw them out of the plane. And then, yeah, because everything was so chaotic, we went to the workshop a week before the test drop to pick up the box and discuss it with them. And they call it a workshop, because they converted an old pigsty into a sewing studio. We were down there in this stable, and they showed us the box. And they told us, hey guys, none of this is going to work. Not with the box and the loads, and with all their technical know-how.
And we, we were already, we say in Switzerland, "the lights are going out." We were already getting that sinking feeling, like, shit, now we have a plane in a week. And stop telling us somehow that it's not possible. It has to work somehow now. And then they just pulled us up. They took us up a flight higher, where they do the sewing, and set us up with the perfect system. They sewed a really cool system and made the box perfect. And so, it actually had almost nothing left to do with what Sam and I had somehow cobbled together. They put real work into it and the thing was simply top-notch. And they tested it and they even... they have one in the Engelberg Valley, there are many of those small mini-cable cars that go up to the alp; they threw this box out of one of those small cars with a line to test the multiple loading.
So they had 50 meters of free fall and then an opening and so on. They really tested it to the core and just produced and set up the top system for us, and then developed it further later on. And they were a very important partner for the project. And now, in cooperation with them and many other people who contributed, we have an extremely efficient and safe system that is also very cost-effective to produce.
That's what hangs underneath like a large big bag, where you can pack in all sorts of things. So it's probably more of a fabric bag than a wooden crate, like you had originally.
had. Exactly, exactly. First, we had a wooden crate, then Fluxout built a high-end model with foam for the first drops, and it looks amazing. You could probably throw surgical instruments in there; that wouldn't be a problem. But that was obviously way too expensive for the masses. So, real Swiss quality. Yeah, top-notch, yeah, exactly. I mean, really, it's a really nice product and looks great. It was also important for the test drops and for the authorities to see the whole thing in top condition at least once. And of course, we'll continue to use those when we have really sensitive material. So the system will obviously continue to be used. And then later we came up with the idea, as you already said, with the heavy bags, big bags.
These are like white fabric sacks, the kind you see on construction sites with cobblestones or something like that. They're made of really coarse material.
And that's exactly what we've switched to now for the payloads that are supposed to be a bit cheaper and aren't extremely sensitive.
That means you'll probably have those bags produced, and you'll have the gliders sent to you by the paraglider pilots so that you can assign them accordingly for the missions. What can carry what? What can be dropped or deployed for what?
Exactly right. There are actually three components coming together there. One is, as you said, the glider that goes through a triage, is folded, and stored properly. Then we have the heavy bags, which are produced by a heavy bag producer, of course with our requirements and a few details we've adjusted. And then the third component is the one produced by Flugsau. That's the automatic container where the glider is folded inside, which stays attached to the aircraft. So it always stays behind. And then a new glider is folded inside again, and then another heavy bag.
What kind of aircraft do you use for these deployment scenarios? Is it basically an aircraft that would normally be used for parachuting as well? Or what is it?
is a huge, huge advantage of our system. You can use it on any aircraft that can open the door in flight. And those are, of course, mainly jump planes that are suitable. But it could be a Cessna 182. It could be a Baron, like the ones we use in the Mediterranean. And it can go up to a Caravan or Twin Otter or Sky Van. So, anything that can carry a bit of weight and can open a door in flight. That's the genius of it. The system can be used on a wide variety of aircraft.
That means you could also, during one flight, if it's a larger plane like a Caravan or something, you could drop 20 or 50 bags—not at the same time, but one after another over several passes or something like that—you could drop really large quantities there.
That's always a question of the aircraft, of course. It's about weight and balance, so the center of gravity and weight distribution. But in a Caravan, for example, we can drop about eight large bags of around 80 to 100 kilos. And if there's enough space, we can also drop three bags in a row, so we drop three bags in one pass, then another three bags in the next flight. It depends a bit on how large the drop zone is where we're dropping them.
And then there are special dropmasters sitting in the back of the plane who know exactly when they have to release the hook so that it actually goes where it's intended.
Exactly, exactly, exactly. Those are two positions. There are two people in the back of the plane who drop these payloads and stay in communication with the pilots—it always has to be coordinated—to drop the payloads at the right moment. And this system is brilliant; you have to work very precisely, of course. But on the other hand, it's not extremely complex. In a one-week training course, we actually have one person fully trained on the system, and they can then use it completely accurately and efficiently.
And if you're going to be in South Sudan soon—you said July—should you start that then? Will it be locals doing the dropmaster work? Or will it be people from your team saying, "I'll be in South Sudan for four weeks and help out"?
We have a core team, a core crew of, well, almost 15 now, 10 Loadmasters who have a lot of experience with the system, and they will be deployed in South Sudan at the beginning. So, for the first month or the first two months, we will fully accompany the project with our people, with our staff, and they will then train the locals. So, these are local MSF forces who will be trained during these two months, and we will initially do a lot of the heavy lifting ourselves, and then new people will be onboarded gradually, and in the end, we'll basically only be there as supervisors to see if everything is running well, and then probably about every six months there will be an audit where one of our people goes down to see if everything is still running according to the guidelines and to see how it's going.
That
means that you as HPI might eventually, basically, only handle the logistics by saying we'll deliver the gliders, the heavy bags, and the corresponding D-bags so that you can deploy this system.
Exactly, that is really the core goal. We want the project to be able to grow, so that it isn't tied to us. We really want to support organizations that work according to ethical and moral guidelines, like Doctors Without Borders, for example. Theoretically, one could work with the system by dropping other things needed for conflicts, etc. So we are very strict... Haven't you received any requests from Ukraine yet? No, not yet, no. We once had a request, actually the first ones who wanted to use it. That was also an organization in Africa that works for environmental protection and for gorillas. But they were quite honest with us from the very first moment and said that they are, of course, also in an armed conflict with poachers.
...and that they can't guarantee that weapons or ammunition, for example, won't be dropped there that they need for their conflicts. And that was, of course, a very clear no-go for us. But the requests were already there. So the system, like all good things, can also be used for bad things. And we obviously have very clear guidelines, and we will monitor that very closely. We'll track it to ensure it's used correctly. And with MSF, so with Médecins Sans Frontières, we certainly have the right partner now for this project in South Sudan, who naturally work exactly according to these guidelines. And one part of the system, a basic idea, is also to use our personnel for training partner organizations.
And on the other side, we also have our personnel available so that we can do rapid response. That means if there's an earthquake or a tsunami or any other event that paralyzes the infrastructure of a country, that is also an area where we can provide aid very efficiently when ground logistics are no longer functioning. All the helicopters are overloaded with all the tasks at hand. And we will certainly be active in those areas as well. And that's how we actually want to create a baseline utilization of the system throughout the year for our partner projects. But if we have any catastrophic event where the association should arrive, then we can pull our crews and go directly into the relief effort for a short period,
exactly to drop off relief supplies.
Are the crews out there for you all working on a volunteer basis?
Yes, that's correct. They are all volunteers.
So they're saying, I'll take two months to go to South Sudan, take a vacation or unpaid leave, and then train the people there?
Exactly. We have a small core team that gets small compensation. You have to say, that's almost symbolic for the hours they put in. There are small reimbursements, but all the pilots in the Mediterranean, the drop crews and so on, they are all volunteers doing voluntary work. There are very many people who put an extreme amount of time and heart and soul into these projects.
Let's go back to the end now to HPI's flight operations. You started and completed a crowdfunding campaign at the end of 2022 and raised more than 50,000 Swiss francs. It says there you needed it to found a humanitarian airline. Why do you need a humanitarian airline? Why can't you just go out with your planes like that?
That's a good question. In the Mediterranean, there is a relatively clear distinction in aviation between private aviation—meaning recreational pilots doing unpaid pleasure flights—
pure pleasure flying, let's just say. And then there's a very clear dividing line to professional aviation—aviation where you're allowed to issue invoices. Or where, for example, a pilot also receives compensation for their work as a pilot. And until now, we've been operating purely privately. So we haven't issued any invoices. Our pilots have never earned anything from their work. And now, of course, we've already noticed in the Mediterranean, it's very, very, very unusual for there to be an organization that runs a professional flight operation. So the operation in the Mediterranean is as complex and professionally structured as an airline. So that is a professional operation.
And yet, legally speaking, we still operate under private aviation. And now, of course, it's a problem if we want to provide aid in a country where this structure doesn't exist at all, because we show up there with our SWAS system or with aerial reconnaissance in a disaster situation and want to fly. Then, of course, the authorities want to see papers from a commercial operation. And then, suddenly, there's a legal path to find access and get the permit to somehow operate there. And that's a bit of a balancing act we have. Because we are perceived completely differently if we're private pilots—imagine, there's a huge flood in Germany, and then someone shows up saying, "Yes, I have a private pilot's license and I'm flying a huge plane and we can do this and that and that, but we need a permit now."
You never get a permit. Those are two things. One is that it makes it easier for us to provide aid with the legal structure.
And on the other hand, it gives us the possibility to also invoice for our services. That means the operation of HP has grown to the point where we naturally have to be able to issue an invoice so that we can cover our costs and, as I said, pay small compensations. Because it has become a proper professional flight operation by now. And there are now positions that are simply so specialized that you can't continue working with volunteers alone anymore. So there are people who have to invest so much time there that they also need compensation for it.
And that would be the vehicle for it. Our heart will certainly continue to beat for volunteers, and that's in our DNA. But having the right legal structure gives us more opportunities to operate commercially and obtain the respective permits. Or, for example, insurance is exactly the same thing. We obviously have to insure our aircraft specifically so that we can fly into Libyan airspace. So international airspace, but in the Libyan zone. And it's naturally easier to negotiate with insurance if you have an airline structure, rather than just showing up as a private pilot and saying, I want to do a high-risk operation in South Sudan now.
There's still a lot more to it than that, of course. That
means that from a slightly crazy, very idealistic idea that was born around a campfire, a large professional support operation has ultimately become. You're the head of it. Am I seeing that right? Yes, well, I'm the chairman of the board of trustees now. Does the professionalization and seeing the project grow, becoming bigger and bigger, mean for you at some point that you might have to say, my flight school Free Wings doesn't fit in anymore? I've grown into this humanitarian project in my life, so I'll have to give up my paragliding, at least as a flight school.
The great thing is that HP is flying on its own now, I'd say. We have such a great team and it's grown so nicely that it's now somewhat separated from the core team that founded it. Right? This is such a beautiful moment now. The baby is flying on its own. And of course, I can now choose to what extent I want to be involved and what proportion I'll be part of it.
As the chairman of the foundation, I still accompany the whole thing very strongly from a strategic perspective. But whether I'll still go on missions for two weeks every month, I don't think I can imagine that, because I just had a son a year and a half ago, I'm new to family life and I'm totally enjoying it. And I don't think I have the energy to be away that much in such a difficult environment. I will still fly missions, I'm sure of that. That's my passion. That's totally important to me. But it won't be to the same extent as it was back in 2016, for example. Back then, it was the only thing there was for me. And in what form it will continue and how I am allowed to, want to, and can be involved, I'll see.
But that will always be a part of it. And I also believe that from HP, that DNA of thinking outside the shoe box, or somehow thinking outside of the box, finding new solutions, staying innovative, and doing something with passion—that will always be there, no matter how professional, because that's the structure behind it. It's necessary and it's very important. And it's also our pride that we can now operate at such a high professional level. But the DNA is in all of us. And funnily enough, very, very many of our pilots are also active in paragliding or mountain sports or in other areas that bring these qualities from the adventure, from the implementation, from the whole thing.
Do you think that has something to do with the mindset of paragliding?
Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. I think that also showed during recruiting when we gained new team members. In my opinion, it has a lot to do with it because in paragliding, so much is not quite graspable. In risk management, there is never a one and a zero. You have to focus very intensely on yourself, rely on your own feeling, your own intuition, on solid preparation but also on solid theory—and practical knowledge, on training, and a healthy sense of self-confidence. That is simply elementary for paragliding. And in these humanitarian missions, there...
there is no normal state. It's always a state of emergency. There's always a new element involved. And there are no structures where you can somehow piece things together with ones and zeros. You always have to carry full responsibility and make the right decision, even if it's sometimes not so pleasant. Let's just say, like when you're standing on the launch site with your paraglider, you've done a hike and fly, 2,000 meters of altitude, and then the wind doesn't fit the launch site, then you just have to have exactly the right mindset that day and make the right decision, even though you might have hiked all the way up there. And in a humanitarian mission, it's exactly the same. Even if there's a boat in distress somewhere, if I can't fly there safely, then I can't, no matter how difficult it is to make that decision.
And I think there are a lot of exciting parallels there.
Plus, the humanitarian missions are always accompanied by things like going to Juba, South Sudan, sleeping somewhere in a noisy crew house, and having to improvise how to get food. And that still involves a lot of adventure. You also have to bring the necessary flexibility, enjoy it, and make it work.
Fabio, thanks for these super exciting stories. I hope that the SFAS system and this readiness in the paragliding community will make it clear what you can still use your old rescue canopy for—for something truly good. And I assume that almost everyone who flies for a while will probably still have one or two; I think I have one or two as well, I'll send them to you soon, so that you can say, okay, there might be treasures here that others can appreciate, which for me are actually just, well, what do I do with these, just lying around on my shelf. Great idea. I hope this goes down well in the community. I hope it's well received and that you get many new or, rather, old but still very useful rescue canopies.
Yes, that would make me hugeley happy, yeah. I'm looking forward to being able to report soon on where we were really able to make a difference with these emergency gliders. I'm so looking forward to the moment I see that image, when the first box lands where people are starving, where people need medical help. And to connect that with emergency gliders from our beautiful sport, I'm incredibly looking forward to that and hope that I can report to you very soon when the first gliders from us are able to save lives.
I'm looking forward to that too, or rather, I find it super exciting, and I'd love to continue following the whole project. Thanks for being here.
Thanks for having me, and thank you so much for your great work, Lucian. It's always a pleasure. Thank you for letting me listen to you; you're truly an asset to our sport.
You're very welcome.
That was Podz-Glidz episode 108 with Fabio Skragen. In the shownotes on the Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz, you'll find some additional links and, of course, the addresses in Switzerland and the EU where you can send your old reserve parachutes so they can still provide a truly meaningful service one or more times during the delivery of relief goods. Perhaps this episode will even inspire you to organize a collection drive in your club. The more rescues we gather, the cheaper the shipping costs are in proportion, and the more the Humanitarian Pilots Initiative can go all out with its relief project. By the way, even if you don't have any old rescuers left, you can still help.
The HPI, as an aid organization, is of course also dependent on monetary donations. You can find the appropriate link for that in the show notes as well. The usual plug on how you can support my work at Lu-Glidz and Podz-Glidz will be back in the next podcast episode. Until then, don't fall from the sky. Ciao.