Yeah, it was like I just took my paraglider to school instead of a schoolbag. I had this wing harness where everything was inside. I'd go to school with it, had a liter of paper and a pen with me. In the backpack, yeah, on the side. I'd go to school with it, be there, and then after school I'd hike up to the mountain and be there at the Sohren, flying. I also had a math teacher who flew kites himself. Which was also practical sometimes, because if I had him for the last period, he'd take the thermals with him to the mountain right away. And yeah, and then I was already there, sometimes even sick, if it was good.
And that's why I failed my first Abitur exam. I failed it once because I was just thinking about flying.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the cosmos of paragliding.
Today with Selin
Lorenz. And
I'm Lucian Haas.
One thing you have to give Selin Lorenz: once she sets her mind on a goal, hardly anything can stop her from reaching it.
Even back in her school days, she used her own savings to get her paragliding license and often skipped class to do it. At her first Border Race, she managed to make it onto the podium right away, but had to be carried to the car from there because she couldn't take another step. And when she finally started at the 2023 Red Bull X Alps as Team Germany 3 at just 25 years old, she did so with a badly swollen ankle—following a mishap during a photo shoot. Because of that, giving up was never an option for her. In this 120th episode of Podz-Glidz, Selin Lorenz tells stories like these and more. We also talk about paragliding as a never-ending learning process, among other things.
Rather, how to deal with blisters during hike and fly, the appeal of competition flying, and why it's sometimes necessary to go backwards.
If you enjoy the podcast, please support my work as a patron. You can find out how to do that very easily on my Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz, specifically on the "Fördern" page.
Selin, how are your feet? Are they all healed up now?
Yes, my feet have healed again. You can still see it a little bit, but they're healed as far as they go.
How long did that take? I saw a picture once that looked pretty nasty.
Yes, it was pretty nasty too. I spent a week in Zell am See and was able to rest quite well there. And then I took another week off at home. So, two weeks already.
All the blisters and stuff, were they all healed by then?
Well, you can still see them now. You can still see some slight marks deep in the skin, but
it is
it's already healed quite well.
That means there are basically scars left from something like that? Yeah, a bit.
What's it like when you participate in the Red Bull X Alps, you've prepared for a year, you're out there running, and then you realize, crap, my body is basically letting me down. My feet are giving out. I can't go on anymore. Yeah,
I didn't even prepare for it for a year. That was the thing.
I signed up super spontaneously at the end of August on my way to Switzerland, while stuck in a traffic jam. I basically just did it on my phone. Yeah, yeah. And then I was there in Switzerland with friends, sitting at the table, and I thought—or I told them—I don't know, I don't know if I've just done something good. To find out. And then I just signed up spontaneously. And that was it, yeah, I had no year of preparation. And then, during the time I was selected, I also broke my back. That was another thing on top of it.
Really broken?
Yeah, so a twist. A
a bit crushed, right?
Yeah, crushed. And it's, well, it's a bit crooked now. And I still had to lie flat for six weeks. That was on top of everything else. And then the real preparation only started around late October, early November. And it was just super stressful then.
But yeah, of course, it's not great when your body says, hey, no, stop right here with the running.
That sounds like quite a run of bad luck. You're saying that during the preparation, or before things actually really got going, you broke your back and couldn't do anything for a while. Yeah. Then there was the prologue, or rather during the preparation before the prologue, you also badly sprained your foot and could hardly walk anymore. Yeah. Aren't those the kind of points where you'd say, I think someone doesn't want me participating here at all? Maybe I should just call it off.
No, those were always voices from the outside saying, "Well, now you're doing it," or what I was thinking about whether I should participate or not. But for me, it was always just like, "I'm definitely doing this." I had put in so much preparation, so much work into it. Like, I'm not letting them take that away from me. I'm participating and giving it everything I've got once again. And I'm just making the best of the situation, because giving up was never an option for me at all.
Are you a fighter, like a natural warrior?
Yes, I'd say I can really grit my teeth and push through. Where [does that]
where does that come from?
Yeah, just from the past. I didn't have an easy childhood, or well, I didn't. And I had to grit my teeth a lot. And I think that's still carrying over now.
With that back injury you had, how much was your participation at risk?
So, was it not a point where you were like, wow, I'm lying here flat, I'd better just cancel right away? Or was it really more like, no, I'm going to push through it?
Yeah, well, it was definitely a point where I thought, wow, what am I doing now? I know I'm not exactly physically fit to begin with. And now there's another break where I have to rest again, where I can't train and have to recover. And also, yeah, when the announcement was made about who's participating, I was lying there at Lake Garda with my broken back and thought, yay. I'm in, and I'm just lying here with my broken back.
But, well, I thought to myself, I'll just give it my best shot. You don't get the chance to be part of something like this very often. And you just gain experience and get richer. So I thought, I'm doing it.
So you had to pull out of the race. Was that a huge disappointment, or was it more like, yeah, I got the experience. It wasn't really like that? Or does it haunt you and you think, hey, I somehow failed? Even if it's not a failure and your body is just telling you, hey, it's not working.
Yeah, of course I wasn't happy about it. And I could already tell on that last day in Fiesch that it just wasn't going to work out somewhere. I was already aware of it before the Red Bull race doctor came up to me and just told me to stop. I was already aware of it before the Red Bull race doctor came up to me and just told me to stop. Of course, I wasn't happy about it and was already somewhat disappointed. But when your body just says, no, it's not possible anymore, then nothing helps in that moment. And sure, I wasn't happy about it at first. But yeah, I'm still super grateful for the experience and everything I was able to gather there.
From the experiences you've had, are those the kind where you say, "Hey, more of that?" Or are they the kind where you say, "No, I've experienced that once now. I know what it's like. That's just a number I don't want to keep riding."
I'd like to keep riding this route. And sure, there are positive and negative experiences. But yeah, I don't know what will happen in two years or how it will all play out. But I'd definitely like to gain even more experience.
You said you signed up for it pretty spontaneously. But did you have plans anyway? Had you been thinking about it or dreaming of it for a long time beforehand, like saying, I want to take part in the X-Alps at some point?
Yes, already. When you do Hike and Fly and also participate in Hike and Fly races, I think it's like the ultimate thing there is. Sure, there's also the X-Pure, which is also a huge step or just really intense. But of course, it was always a dream somewhere. And I told myself that I'd take a look at the Dolomiti Superfly because it was the first really long race for me. And it went pretty well and I was super stoked about it. And then I thought to myself, I'll try applying for it.
Doing pretty well at the Dolomiti Superfly means you finished as the first and only woman, as they say so nicely. How surprising was that for you?
That was quite surprising for me. Yeah, on the first day I was last in the race, and because I was there at the start when one participant broke her back right after the start and slammed back into the launch site because her glider tore off. I was still there and I was also slow. But everything just came together and I was way at the back. And yeah, then I was able to. It was pretty strong north foehn. But I was still able to make up some serious ground on the next ones, so on the second and third day. And for me, at the beginning of the race, it was like, if I make it to Sechsten, then I've reached my personal goal.
Yeah, then I was in sixth place and I was already in that kind of mood. Like, whatever comes next is just a bonus. And then it went really well, despite the north foehn. And yeah, I was mega happy that I still managed to do it on the last day. It wasn't a given for me that I'd make it.
Without this success, or the fact that you actually reached the goal, do you think you would have applied for the Red Bull X-Alps? Or was it a point where you said, hey, maybe that's possible too, maybe I can do it. Then I'll just give it a try.
Yeah, I had the whole summer—well, before that, during the phase when you could apply—I thought about it all summer, should I just give it a try? It had been bugging me the whole time. I kept writing to my friends, asking if I should do it. And I also had a good buddy who was my main supporter, and he was always like, "Well, you're up for it." And I was always like, I've been thinking about it all summer. Yeah, I thought I probably would have done it. It's always hard to say what would have happened if. But I thought to myself, yeah, if you don't try it, you'll never know. And you just have to do it.
Just sign up, just go for it. Yeah. Then see, like with the XC, just take off and then we're flying, then we'll see, sort of. Yeah, if you
If you don't try it, you won't know what it would have been like if you did, yeah, sometimes you just have to do it.
You could also just simply walk out from home and say, I'm doing a hike and fly. And for me and her across the Alps. What appeals to you about competition?
Yeah, what appeals to me is that when you're out there on your own, you tend to go a bit more leisurely. So this, yeah, I don't think I've really done it that way for myself yet. That you're just, yeah, out there for yourself, sure, you're out there for yourself and doing it for yourself. And a bit more leisurely, but I also like this kind of pressure, like from somewhere, just pushing my limits and getting everything out of it that I can. And I don't think you can achieve that alone as much as when it's a competition.
Just like with, also with XC competition flying. You fly differently there than in solo XC.
Why push your limits? What appeals to you about that?
Yes, the adventure of it, the way you get to know yourself anew. You find out how far you can go.
Just learning more and, yeah, just, just learning even more and getting better. And yeah, pushing your limits, that's always a balancing act. Like, what's too much? What else could you give? So it's always something to be approached with caution, but I like it.
Mhm.
Did the fact that you broke your back before the X-Alps have something to do with you pushing yourself to a limit somewhere? Or was it just bad luck?
Yeah, that was really bad. It was in Verbier, doing some acro flying in a valley next door. The Mumbler Airtour was happening right then, and it was just... Maxime Pinault actually said that day, "Yeah, stop the race," because the conditions were just so borderline. And we were there in Verbier and thought, "Yeah, let's just go do some chill acro flying. What are we doing with the day?" And on the first flight, I already thought to myself, the air feels weird somehow. It's just... yeah. And then, while heading up for the second round, I was already thinking, "Does it make sense to fly down now? Shouldn't we just take the lift back down?" But yeah, it's often like that—the thing you actually shouldn't do. You should listen to your gut and just take the lift down.
But then you're standing up there on the mountain and you end up flying down anyway, thinking, "Well, I'm already here, I might as well fly." Which is really stupid when you already have a different gut feeling. And then, yeah, I flew acro. Down at the landing field, there was some kind of shitty wind, right in the lee. And yeah, then I just went full throttle and bombed it on the final approach. And I don't know exactly if I somehow ripped the glider. Or if I just had a collapse. And then I thought, "Yeah, I can still somehow brake it and get up." But yeah, I had my feet... I was still sitting in the harness, which was also stupid. I should have just stood up sooner so that my feet could absorb the impact.
But I thought I could still brake out of it. And then I just slammed right into the landing field. And my boyfriend at the time was also there, I'd told him I was doing some akro. And yeah, he was right there and then rescue and...
But the real mistake was... It was already there before, that I was basically going against my gut feeling.
Yeah, yeah. I figured as much.
How is it with the Red Bull X Alps? What does your gut feeling do there? Is it different when you're in such a competition mode? Is it a much more reckless gut feeling, or is it basically the same?
I think it's basically the same. You just... after the first or second day... you get into the rhythm of the Hike-and-Fly race. It's like a completely different mode, I think, somehow. You're so focused and... at some point, you just do your thing and somehow block out the outside world because you just want to keep moving forward. So for me, it's like... Sure, at the beginning, everything is totally stressful and there are so many people and the cameras and the helicopter and all the spectators. And it's just... But then after a day or two, you also get into a rhythm as a team. Where it's just not there anymore. I mean, I'm pretty far back. There isn't as much commotion everywhere as there is for the first ones.
But I think the gut feeling is similar. On top of that, you're just tired and a bit more drained.
Does the risk threshold increase then? I mean, the willingness to take a risk—let's say, that threshold. Does that also go up? Even if your gut feeling might be saying, okay, the conditions are fine or a bit on the edge and all. But you still say, I'm in the race now. I'm just raising the bar by another 20 percent.
Yes, so in a race, I think you do take a bit more risk. Because you want to be able to keep up somewhere, or to cover a few more kilometers, so you have to walk less or so you're closer to the next turnpoint.
Sure. You push the limits and the risk goes up a bit when you're, I don't know, going full throttle on a North Föhn or something, but that's normal. It's not normal. It's
Does that make a difference? Like Red Bull X Alps, with much larger media attention, where surely many more people are hanging on the live tracking somewhere, and you might know as a pilot—in your case, of course, all my friends are hanging on, and many I don't know, but they're following the race in some way—and then something like a Dolomiti Superfly, okay, maybe ten percent of that are hanging on a glider somewhere or even less. With that, you're much more, it's your race, and the other one is the more media-heavy race, and with one, many helicopters are flying around, with the other maybe none or something like that. So does that do something, anything with how you approach such a race or how you behave during the race?
So for me, it didn't make a difference. For me personally, I was completely in my tunnel. Of course, it's cool when you get messages from people that motivate you—it's just way more with the X Alps, for example, compared to the Dolomiti—but I was completely in my tunnel, and for me, it didn't make a difference, for instance, between smaller races or big ones. I didn't let myself get pushed by the fact that, in my head, way more people are watching, there's way more behind it. I just did my thing regardless.
So you'd say risk tolerance and all that is basically the same. Once you're participating in those kinds of races and you're in race mode, you're fired up and you just go for it.
Yes, I would say so. It always depends on what kind of background you have when you approach a race like that, or how to put it—in my Border Race, I just join because I want to gain experience and be part of it. Then it can also be that you just take it really, like, super easy and don't really push yourself at all, which is totally okay. Just to be there, to gain the experience. Or you go full out to your limits. It always depends on what you're bringing to the race, I think. And depending on that, the risk is then tested.
Were you pushing yourself to your limits from the very beginning of your Hike & Fly races? I think you started with Border Race. Were you basically pushing your limits from the start?
Yes, the first Hike & Fly race was... well, I couldn't walk after that either. I really pushed my limits there. I still remember how, I got on the podium and then I couldn't walk back to the car. So Somi carried me to the car because I couldn't walk anymore. Also the
Were your feet destroyed, or was it just muscular, like you're saying, I'm so exhausted, I can't move anymore?
My feet were so destroyed. I just kept running all night. I think I slept for about 15 minutes, because it's a 33-hour race.
And I ran through the whole night, as I said, slept for 15 minutes, and also in the rain. And then, if there was even a tiny mile, if it went slightly downhill, I couldn't do it. I ended up walking backwards. I hooked myself into my supporter's arm and we walked down the street backwards, because if I went forward, my feet would slip—I had such blisters on my toes. It hurt so much that I did everything backwards at the end. That was also super close. That was also very... yeah, I was at my limits there.
With the experience you've gained from these races, have you changed or adjusted your gear much over time to the point where you're saying, "I know now I need completely different shoes to be able to run something like this sustainably"? Because what works for a two-hour hike up a mountain is different from when you're actually out on foot for maybe ten hours a day for seven days straight, and your feet behave completely differently then.
Yes, I have. I've learned more over time and I'm going to change things again for my next Hike & Fly races. Yeah, you learn something new with every race that you want to change regarding your gear, yeah.
Now you've been plagued by blisters. What would you change to prevent these blisters?
The thing with the blisters was also that, well, what the doctor also suspected, is that because of the "Umschnackler" beforehand, I had a protective posture, a different gait, and because of that, I was loading everything differently, and that's how the blisters came. That might have been a factor too. And so, yeah, just breaking in the shoes even more. And I will definitely—I shouldn't say anything now—I will definitely also get shoes that are one or two sizes larger, yeah. When your feet swell up like that, my shoes don't fit anymore. I had that too; I put on the shoes from my supporters because my own shoes didn't fit anymore. And I'll keep in mind to get larger shoes again.
And how many pairs of shoes did you have with you?
I think about ten pairs.
Ten pairs? Yeah. And that was still few, because others had 20, right?
I don't even know what the others had with them. If it gets wet, road running shoes—which one would be for a mountain?
And are those ten different pairs? Or are you saying I have about three models and three of each? Like that?
roughly, yeah.
So similar models or the same models in pairs, where I know I really like them.
In case it gets wet, so I can just switch to the dry ones and it's the same shoe.
If someone wanted to start doing hike-and-fly races, what would you advise them regarding equipment, especially to avoid issues like feet suffering or something similar? Maybe in terms of socks, shoes, or something else. Based on your experience, what is actually worth recommending?
I think you should at least start moisturizing your feet a month in advance so they don't get so dry, just to have nice, supple feet.
What do you use to cream them? Hirsch, Talg, or what do you use?
Yes, I use Hirsch, Talg.
Then everyone has to figure out for themselves which socks work for them. I have compression socks that I get along with really well. I think they're great. And also, bring several pairs of socks so you can change them if they get wet—that as soon as you've somehow gotten wet, you change your socks immediately. Make sure you have a change of shoes too, so you stay nice and dry. If you have a problem, you can also use baby powder, and use that if your feet are really wet or sweaty. Yeah, and just always make sure your feet are dry. Yeah, that's the most important thing, I think. And as soon as you feel pressure somewhere, as soon as you notice, oh, maybe a blister is forming, you tape it up immediately.
And don't just wait until—actually, by then it's almost too late because the pressure point is already there—but just tape it up.
Uptaping just means putting some unpadded tape over it to reduce the friction a bit. It really means stopping and saying, there's something there, stop immediately, shoes off, socks off, tape on, and then somehow keep going. In the hope that it holds up that way. Not
it doesn't get any worse, yeah.
And what else? Is there anything else in terms of clothing or flight technique?
In terms of equipment, is there anything you'd say is definitely recommended for a Hike-and-Fly beginner? What do you need right from the start?
Yeah, clothing-wise, just whatever you feel comfortable in, what you'd normally wear for your hike-and-flies. Jacket-wise, just something nice and warm, because you're doing long-distance flights and you just want to be nice and warm in the Dolomiti Superfly. I remember thinking once, "I'm just going to do a glide-down now. I'll be happy if I get around that mountain range over there, then there's a big road and I'll walk the rest, because I can't make it any further today anyway." And I was wearing these really short shorts. Just a T-shirt and a thin jacket. And then I ended up flying all the way across the Dolomites anyway. And it was so cold. It was so cold. So maybe it's better to just put on another jacket, even if you think it might just be a glide-down.
You should always assume more than you actually think. Yeah.
Because otherwise you're sitting up there freezing in the air.
Yeah. And take snacks with you. That's always important too. A bar. And enough to drink.
How do you handle peeing on the plane?
I manage. I don't drink that much beforehand. Which isn't healthy either. But I can actually hold out quite well. I also had that long flight from Lermonts to Davos with DXLabs, where I was in the air for like seven hours or something. I didn't need anything then either.
It's not like I'm saying, oh, I'm Red Bull X-Labs, so I don't have to fly on points now. I can just interrupt my flight. I'll just land for a bit, sit behind the next bush, and then keep going.
Yeah, you can do that. But I've never really had problems with it. I can hold myself back quite well.
Let's jump back a bit in your aviation career. Right to the very beginning. How did you get into flying in the first place? I
I got a glider flight from my mother for my 11th birthday. It was in Kössen back then.
And yeah, I was so enthusiastic from that day on that I said I'd save everything, every cent I got my hands on, so that as soon as it was possible, I could get a license. At 15 or 16, I went to the flight school with my jute bag full of small change. And I said, here, I want to do a basic course now. And then it started.
That's the, I'd say, long story short, probably. Yeah. Why did your mom even get the idea to give you a paragliding flight as an eleven-year-old? Had you always wanted that? Did you say, "Hey Mom, they're always flying up there, I want to too"? Or was it really spontaneous? And she had no idea what she was doing to you, in a positive sense.
Yeah, I don't think she had any idea what she was doing to me. It was a surprise for me. I had no idea what we were doing or where we were going. And then suddenly we were in Kössen, like, yeah, you're going tandem flying now. That was a surprise for me. And I don't think she was really aware of what she was doing by doing it. Yeah. Simply because we lived near Kössen at the time. And there's always a lot going on in the air there. And yeah, then she probably thought... I don't know exactly what she was thinking. I don't think she put much thought into it.
And why did that flight flip you out so much that you said, "I absolutely have to do this"? I mean, as a little kid, or small, but eleven, still a little kid. Then really, like, "I want to save up for that now." And I had this jute bag where I'd always put in a little bit of whatever money I had left over, so that I could eventually get my license.
I don't know, just the whole thing. Last time, I found a CD with a video on it and watched it. It was really funny. And I was just thrilled by the feeling of flying. I just really wanted to learn it and do it myself. I didn't have any friends or family members who were into that sport back then either. It was completely on my own initiative.
That excitement from flying along, that tandem flight, when you started flying—did you find exactly what you had dreamed up as a kid, probably over the course of a few years?
Yes, well, already.
For me, flying is simply the greatest feeling of freedom of all. It's just so indescribable. I just, yeah, I don't know how to describe it. I don't have the words for it. It's just so beautiful.
Even better than I imagined back then.
They say you even skipped school to learn paragliding. Is that true?
Yeah. I just signed up for the basic course. And yeah, that was around May, June. And then I was really sick for a week. And then I was in Ruhrpolding at the Übungshammer. From
Infected with the flight virus. The worst. You had to go into flight school quarantine. Something like that.
Yeah, that's right. I was infected with the flight virus. And then I had to go to the flight school for treatment. And then get my A-license, yeah. Your mother...
completely backed me up. She didn't say, Selin, school. There's something like compulsory education. It's nice that you want to learn to fly. But no. Instead, she thought, hey, if you really want to do it, then do it. Or how was it?
Yes, she supported it back then, yeah. I was just being stupid, yeah.
That was anyway during the time before the summer holidays. When you don't really do that much anymore.
Oh, I see. Yeah, then.
Yeah. And then, once you had your license, you probably wanted to go flying again. Did you still skip school day by day sometimes? Because you'd say, "Today looks like a good flying day. I absolutely have to get out there now."
Yeah, it was like, instead of my school bag, I just took my paraglider to school. I had this harness where everything was inside. I'd go to school with that. I had a liter of paper and a pen with me.
In that harness system? In that backpack. Yes.
Sideways. I took it to school. I was there. And then after school, I'd hike up the mountain. And I was there at the Sohren, flying. I also had a math teacher who flew kites himself. Which was sometimes practical. Because during the last period, if I had him, he'd take me straight to the mountain. And yeah, then I was already sick sometimes, if it was good.
And that's why I failed my first Abitur exam. I failed once because I was just out flying. And then I... That means you were
just flying and that's why you didn't study? Or did you fly so much and have so many missed classes that you weren't allowed to take the Abitur in the end?
No, I just didn't pass. I was already in the exam, but I didn't pass it. And the following year, I pulled myself together a bit and managed to do it. I just flew a bit less during that time.
If flying was so important to you back when you were younger, and now you're seven years older, now you're 25, has your approach or your feeling about flying changed in some way?
Hmm, I wouldn't say so. I mean, I'm still super passionate about flying. Sure, you always learn more. And you see things or experience things that might set you back a bit or make you think. Like, what am I doing here? How am I approaching this? What do I want to do? Or, yeah.
But basically, flying is just almost everything for me, yeah.
You just said there are moments that throw you back or make you question things. You had a very tragic moment in your flying life. You lost your friend. How did that happen? Or what happened there?
That was back in 2019. So it was actually the peak time. That was Michi. He was my second boyfriend back then. My first real big love. And we had the best time. We were just flying and climbing. We did every kind of shit together. We flew together at 18, doing synchro, doing acro. So it was actually almost exclusively acro flying. And he was just about to move in with me to Innsbruck. And then we were in the Zittertal climbing. And it was somehow one of those days where the rock was wet. Where he said, yeah, let's go flying. And there was always this one very prominent mountain where he said, wow, he wants to go down that one with the Speedy.
Then we set off in the morning at five, I think. I believe it was some 1,500, 1,600 meters of hiking. A beautiful mountain. Perfect for Speedy flying. And we were at the summit. On the way up, we already picked out a spot where we wanted to take off later. I had the Mini-Wing with me. Yeah, as I said, the Speedy. And then, yeah, we were at the summit. And we said, yeah, let's take off down there, right? Where we'd agreed. And he wanted to let me go first. But I said, yeah, no, you go ahead. You're faster anyway. And he went ahead. I followed behind. And it was such a ridge walk.
And then at a certain point, I mean, we were always whistling at each other when we were out somewhere. Then the other person would whistle back. Then we knew, oh yeah, there he is.
And at some point, I kind of thought... I mean, I looked around. I had this weird feeling. And then I whistled. And there was no whistle back. Because when it's super steep, right? You're constantly watching the person in front of you. Where they're going around, how they're descending. If you're focusing on your own steps... I already had this really weird feeling. And I thought to myself, shit, something's not right here. Then I was at the spot where we wanted to start. And he wasn't there. And then I went a bit further around the corner. I wanted to see if he was there somehow, because maybe it was better for starting there. But he wasn't there either. And then I look down into the couloir. And I thought to myself, oh no, there's something down there. But could that be some kind of avalanche ball?
From some rope? Like a marking? Or what do I know. I thought to myself, oh no, that's not it. And then I already thought, should I call the mountain rescue? And then I thought, ah no, it probably won't be anything. Oh, stupid. I should have just called the mountain rescue right away. And then I descended a bit. The couloir. And it was just damper. Meadow slope. With tall grass. End of August. And then it was just super slippery. And then I descended a bit. And at the moment I realized that he was no longer alive, I also fell about 100 meters. And then I started sliding completely. Because I just couldn't hold on anymore. I started shaking really hard. And I was totally panicking in that moment.
And I fell down myself.
Yeah, I ended up falling on him too. So he basically caught me.
And yeah, then he was lying there. And I lost my phone. I had to look for his phone on him. And then the whole procedure started with the mountain rescue and all that. And it wasn't nice.
How did this story change your experience and your approach to flying?
I mean, it's not an accident that happened while flying, right? But did it still have an impact? Like, did you say, "Now I'm questioning flying accordingly"? Or what did it do?
Yeah, definitely. So because I flew aggro with him so much,
the fun of flying aggro was gone. So, of course, I took a break afterwards. I just... well, I was just flying with him. And we always had a good time. And then, not having his main wing buddy anymore... it was super hard for me. I sat at the launch site with my gear and just cried.
Because I just felt like something was missing. And I just didn't have any fun with it anymore.
And that's why I'm currently doing Aggro-Fliegen. That's why I haven't been doing much Aggro since then. And I'm slowly trying to get back into it a bit. Which isn't easy. Because I've just lost so much during this time.
But of course, you just rethink everything. And you approach everything differently. I mean, an experience like that just... it changes everything in your life. It's like flipping a switch, a light switch. It's just different. Everything. Yeah.
You say you've hardly flown any aggro for a while. Has anything else changed about your way of flying, not just regarding aggro or whatever, but something else? Have you maybe become more cautious with it? Or in some way? I mean, if you say Red Bull X, that doesn't have much to do with caution. Or flying at Dolomite Superfly. But is it still maybe something where there's a brake somewhere? Or sometimes a block? Or whatever?
In terms of flying, I mean, it hardly blocks me at all when I'm out cross-country flying. Or during the race itself. It's more like every now and then when I'm out on the mountain. And it gets steep and slippery. Then sometimes it pops into my head, where I think, oh.
But in terms of flying, sure. If you're out there a lot and spend a lot of time in the flying soul, you experience more things. Like, I don't know, when people somehow have a glider tear away. Or then, well, you experience a lot, right? And things like that, just the whole package, maybe makes you more cautious in certain situations. And,
Yeah. Have you ever had anything really critical happen to you while flying, aside from your, let's say, landing accident where you broke your back, but actually while flying itself, way up there in the air? Did anything really critical ever happen to you?
Not during cross-country flying. I was once with a friend at Lake Garda, and we wanted to do some synchronized flying. And then we collided. That was also not a very nice experience.
Collided and then separated? Or collided and then basically crashed together?
Collided, crashed together. I got tangled in his gallery lines. He was on me. Like, stuck to me. We both threw the line. And then we somehow separated and landed in the water. But yeah, it was pretty much a joint crash.
But otherwise, it hasn't happened like that yet. Yeah, once during agro-flying, I threw a reserve because of the rhythm - saddle flying. But otherwise, not yet. It's three times knocking on wood. Yeah.
If you look into the future... you also work as a tandem pilot, so I assume you earn part of your money from that.
Is paragliding also your future, in the sense that you'd say it's your calling and also your profession?
I really enjoy what I do. I love taking people up into the air and showing them. And tandem flying is super fun. But I don't know what's next for me. Whether it's in five years, I don't know exactly. I'm doing my flight instructor training this autumn. Let's see what comes of that. But I'm currently rethinking things and figuring out what I want to do. In five years, for example. Or where I see myself in the future. I don't see myself doing tandem flying for my whole life, even though it's fun. But I also trained as a pastry chef. Maybe I'll have my own café at some point.
Let's see.
But you're not working in that field anymore, are you?
No, just a bit on the side. Maybe in the winter. But right now, it's not my main source of income.
This summer, you also participated in a PWC, Paragliding World Cup, for the first time. So, a real XC race, not a Hike and Fly race. Why?
Yes, I started with XC competitions in general last year, and I'd already joined a few of them. And now, the first World Cup. And it's just fun. It's a completely different kind of flying. You learn to fly faster. You learn to fly more efficiently. And also just pushing it with the glider in a group. It's fun.
When you say you learn to fly more efficiently, is that just... simply because you're going with the flow? And you learn from that? Or do you sort of look for a role model? Like, the world elite is there. I have the best pilots there. I just latch onto Maxim, or something like that. And I try to fly what he's flying and copy him. That's how I learn.
So I think it's hardly possible to just latch onto someone like that. I mean, I can't do it. I don't think it's possible to just hang onto someone and fly along behind them. They're just on a different level. Maxim and the... I mean, it's incredible. Yeah, but you just learn. Exactly... You see it because you somehow... At the beginning, there are only like 50, 100 people in one place. You see the air. You see... Simply, you can play tactically.
And... yeah.
Are you going to fly more PWCs? Or did you say, okay, that's it for now? And I also notice it always costs something. And PWC is then sometimes scattered all over the world. I'd have to fly to Colombia or Brazil or whatever. It's also always a question of whether you can afford it.
I have to properly qualify myself first. I've actually just received a wildcard for the PWC.
And I was already keen on flying more and being more involved. But of course, there's the financial aspect, which isn't that easy either. But right now, I'm looking for sponsors.
How easy is it to find sponsors?
It's not easy. I mean, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I don't know. But it's really not simple. Paragliding is also such a niche sport. Where, I think, it's just generally not easy to find sponsors.
Doing something like that without sponsors is probably difficult...
Yeah. Yeah, if you want to put a lot of time into it and really focus on it. I think it's difficult without. Yeah, if you really want to go all out.
Then I'll keep my fingers crossed that you find sponsors and make progress in that area. We were just talking about learning. One more question about that: there's certainly a lot you can still learn with a PWC like that. But what would you say you're already particularly good at when it comes to flying? What could someone learn from you?
I don't know.
There's so much room for improvement there. I mean, you never stop learning in anything, I'd say.
Is there nothing where your friends give you feedback and say, "Hey Celine, the way you're cranking it, I don't know, I can never keep up." Or, "Your starting technique is especially great. It looks so aesthetic, the way you always do it. You're always gliding off the ground like an elf or something."
Wow, there's really nothing. I think I just have to learn a lot more. Yeah.
No, I don't know.
Well, then maybe the appeal of paragliding for you is also really that there's always so much more you can learn.
Yes, it's incredible. You never stop learning. There's always still something new you can learn about it.
If you could make a top 3 list right now, what would you most like to learn in the near future?
I'd like to learn how to fly.
Learning to find good lines.
Learning to fly more with the gas—like when and where to give it most efficiently. And what else is there?
We can also stay on those two, but let's stick to line flying for now. Do you have an idea of how one can learn that?
Yes, in competition I think it's good if you...
just talk a lot with the good people about what they thought after the task, how they approached it. If you somehow, I don't know, just talk to Philipp or Ferdi after the task, like what were they thinking. Or with Martin Petz too. Just talk a bit about the tactics, like does that align with what I thought. Where did they hit the brake, where was the point for them to go, "okay, now I'm giving it gas." That you learn a lot from that too. And... with cross-country flying, it's sometimes a matter of luck, I'd say, but... that you simply learn to read the cloud patterns, the valleys better. Or just learn to read them faster, so that you can then give it gas at the specific points.
Are there any pilots who are role models for you? Or is there someone you'd say is your ideal pilot, someone you'd like to be like?
Yes, I think that, as I said, Martin Petz flies so smoothly, it's incredible, he's also a role model for me. Philipp, Hark, and Ferdi, they're always at the top of their game. I'd love to get to that level. They always rise to the top, I... Yes, so, they are role models, yeah.
Can you imagine yourself being a role model for others someday? Or maybe you already are? Depending on what kind of feedback you get?
I've already received feedback that I'm a role model for some people.
But for me, it's somehow just... I don't know.
I can't quite relate to it.
Why not?
I don't know, because I myself... I don't know what I could be seen as a role model for.
Maybe the fighting spirit.
Maybe, yeah.
One who pushes through and sticks with it.
Yeah. With
sprained ankles still into the Red Bull X as a star. Oh, right.
Yeah, okay. And
only gives up when her feet really can't carry her anymore. Now that is a true woman of competition.
Yes, maybe, yeah.
Alright, Celine, let's leave it at that. Thanks for your story, Kämpferische. Exciting stories. I wish you great years ahead. Are you actually taking part in the XP next year? Are you going to register?
Um... I'm not a hundred percent sure yet, but probably not. I'd love to do the Dolomiti Superfly again. And yeah, I'm still planning for next year. It's still up in the air exactly when I'll be doing what.
But Red Bull X Alps 2000, what is that then? 25? That's actually already pretty much planned.
Yeah, it's in the back of my mind. It's there, yeah. But let's see, you can never say for sure what will happen. That
anyway, no. But I'll keep my fingers crossed that it stays that way, that you can participate and will actually do so, and that next time you might have a bit more luck and not pull up an injury right before the race that really handicaps you, but that you'll actually have a chance to maybe even make it all the way to the finish line.
Yeah, I hope so too.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
That was Podz-Glidz episode number 120 with Celine Lorenz. In the show notes for this episode, on the Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz, you can find some additional links. If you enjoyed the episode, then please subscribe to Podz-Glidz. You can do that anywhere podcasts are available. If you also leave a positive rating there, you're helping to make Podz-Glidz even better known. Or just tell your flying friends about it. Podz-Glidz and Lu-Glidz are completely free of paid advertising. I do this out of conviction and for the sake of independence. Nevertheless, professional work and, of course, costs are involved in these products. To finance these, I rely on the concept of voluntary support. If you've listened this far, the podcast should offer some added value for you.
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Hi.