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132. Im Flow - Anja Kohlrausch

// Anja Kohlrausch, Lucian Haas · 2024-04-12 · 00:50:32 · original episode

// streaming from the original SoundCloud feed

[show notes]
Anja Kohlrausch has reached the championship level in dragons, sailplanes, and paragliding. Does she have the pilot gene? +++ Flying without an engine, that is possible not only with the Gleitschirm, but also with the Drachen and the Segelflugzeug. But there are only a few who are at home in all three disciplines. And among them, there are again only very few who also have great sporting successes to show in each of them. Anja Kohlrausch belongs to these rare specimens in the aviation scene. In 1992, she became German Champion in hang gliding, in 2008 German Champion in soaring, and until 2022 also multiple-time German Champion in the Onlinecontest der Segelflieger. She holds several FAI-recognized women's world records in cross-country soaring. For several years, she has again been the best female participant in the XC-Cup, the unofficial flatland XC championship in Germany, in paragliding. Meanwhile, the now 56-year-old looks back on a pilot career of 37 years. And she still describes herself as flight-crazy. In this episode 132 of Podz-Glidz, Anja Kohlrausch modestly talks about her life for aviation. What drives her and what she looks for when she takes to the air, primarily in her home region, the Odenwald. What the differences between the various flight disciplines are for her, how they fertilize each other, and why it is easiest for her to get into a flow state when paragliding. +++ If you want to promote Podz-Glidz and the blog Lu-Glidz, you can find all the relevant information at: https://lu-glidz.blogspot.com/p/fordern.html +++ Music: Los Encinos by Quincas Moreira Youtube Audio Library https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1HwrnOKLOA +++ Lu-Glidz Links: + Blog: https://lu-glidz.blogspot.com + Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/luglidz + Insta: https://www.instagram.com/luglidz/ + Whatsapp channel: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaBVs05CHDynzdlJlU34 + Youtube: https://youtube.com/@Lu-Glidz + Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/lu-glidz + Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZNvk83xxGHHtfgFjiAHyJ + Apple-Podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/de/podcast/podz-glidz-der-lu-glidz-podcast/id1447518310?mt=2 + Linktree: https://linktr.ee/luglidz

[transcript]

0:06Anja Kohlrausch

The truth is, for a record like that—take a world record as an example—you probably make about 20 attempts, all of which narrowly fail, but they're all huge fun. Yes, it's just that I have an incredible amount of joy in trying it over and over again. Every flight is great; eventually, it works out once or it doesn't. In itself, the attempts to fly these long distances are simply fun.

0:47Lucian Haas

Lu-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.

0:51Lucian Haas

Stories from the cosmos of paragliding. Today with Anja Kohlrausch. And I am Lucian Haas.

1:04Lucian Haas

Flying without an engine—you can do that not only with a paraglider, but also with a kite and a glider. But there are only a few who are at home in all three disciplines. And among them, there are only very few who also have major sporting successes to show in each. Anja Kohlrausch belongs to these rare specimens in the aviation scene.

1:30Lucian Haas

In 1992, she became the German champion in kiting, in 2008 the German champion in soaring, and until 2022, she was also a multiple-time German champion in the online contest for soarers. She holds several FAI-recognized women's world records in cross-country soaring. And for several years now, she has also been the top female participant in the XC Cup, the unofficial lowland XC championship in Germany, with the paraglider. Now, the 56-year-old looks back on a pilot's career spanning 37 years. And she still describes herself as flight-crazy. In this episode 132 of Podz-Glidz, Anja Kohlrausch tells us about her life with great modesty.

2:21Lucian Haas

What drives her and what she's looking for when she takes to the skies, primarily in her home region, the Odenwald. What the differences between the various flight disciplines are for her. How they complement each other. And why it's easiest for her to reach a flow state when paragliding.

2:42Lucian Haas

By the way, this conversation took place with the window open. So don't be surprised by occasional birds chirping and cats meowing in the background. If you enjoy this podcast, please support my work as a patron. You can find out how to do that very easily on my Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz, specifically on the "Fördern" page.

3:09Lucian Haas

Anja, when was the last time you got annoyed during a flight?

3:14Anja Kohlrausch

Oh, I really have to think about that for a second.

3:18Anja Kohlrausch

Yeah, actually even on the last flight. The last flight of last year. We tried to go on a cross-country flight. And that from a small 100-meter hill. And the entry into the thermals, as so often, just didn't work out. With a 100-meter difference in altitude and weak wind. That's already annoying when you miss the great days and then at

3:40Lucian Haas

The landing field is set. How long does that kind of frustration last for you?

3:45Anja Kohlrausch

Not long. Either go back up the mountain and try again, or say, okay, I'll try the next day. That's actually pretty typical for paragliding. In the lowlands.

3:59Lucian Haas

Are you an ambitious person?

4:02Anja Kohlrausch

Yes. But I think it's a more positive kind of ambition. It's just incredibly fun to fly long distances. And if you're not allowed to have that fun because you're drowning, you're bound to be a bit annoyed for a moment. How do you deal with

4:23Lucian Haas

how do you deal with that kind of frustration?

4:25Anja Kohlrausch

It motivates me all the more. It's just a new attempt. Trying again. And trying to learn from it. If they are tactical errors during flight, during the cross-country flight. Just take them into account next time. Try to remember them as much as possible. Briefly reflect on that as an option. And then, for example, not make the same tactical mistake again.

4:55Lucian Haas

You've been flying for an incredibly long time now. Since the late 80s. Exactly. Is there still something to learn?

5:04Anja Kohlrausch

With every flight. I mean, every flight is different. Always different weather conditions. Always different routes. On one hand, that means it never gets boring. And at the same time, it means there are opportunities every single time to do something better, to learn something.

5:25Lucian Haas

What would you say was the last time you were in such a period? The "aha" moment?

5:32Anja Kohlrausch

I think that was my first big paragliding flight. I come from soaring. And I always spent the best cross-country flight days in the glider. And I often only went paragliding on the days when I said, well, such a really long cross-country flight isn't possible with the glider right now. And then I went paragliding. And then there was a key moment. Around 2019, at the end of the summer. Where I had actually already had so many soaring flights. With the glider and long cross-country flights. And I said, now I just feel more like paragliding. And it's still a very good cross-country flight day. And I just tried it with the paraglider for the first time.

6:17Anja Kohlrausch

Flying a large, closed task here in the lowlands over the Odenwald. What worked out then was really a key moment. I thought, this is possible. And it was incredibly fun. And actually, that was also the starting point for taking the paraglider instead of the glider in case of doubt when the weather is really good. And just trying out long distances. And large triangles. Even in the lowlands.

6:41Lucian Haas

What decides for you whether today is a paragliding day or a soaring day? If you say that with both, long distances are actually possible—so when would you choose one over the other? In

6:56Anja Kohlrausch

with really large-scale good weather, that would be a decision for a soaring day for me. Because the triangles there are in the range of 700, 800 kilometers. And I definitely wouldn't want to miss those.

7:16Anja Kohlrausch

With a sailplane, you get into the thermals quite reliably. And the days are fairly predictable. So far, those have always been the decisions for me to say, I'll take the sailplane. Because I can fly 800 kilometers in Germany. And I've tended to do paragliding with thermals that aren't quite as strong. Or if I just wanted to have fun on the slope. I also factored in a bit in the back of my mind, well, in case of doubt, the day is lost. Because the wind direction on that small hill or that small mountain here in the Odenwald doesn't fit. We'll just try it. I hope we can have a bit of fun. Today, now, when I actually prefer to fly the longer distances with the paraglider,

8:03Anja Kohlrausch

I'd say if the wind conditions are okay for one of the starting hills here, and the wind speed is safe—so it's not too wild in the air—then I like to fly a paraglider.

8:19Lucian Haas

That means mainly the wind conditions, where you also say the direction is right. But also the strength. And if the wind could get a bit too strong for paragliding, then you'd say it's good for soaring. I still always get hit head-on by the wind there. But in low-wind conditions, then it's a paraglider.

8:36Anja Kohlrausch

Exactly. Or in conditions where it's safe to fly a paraglider, I'd take the paraglider nowadays if in doubt.

8:45Lucian Haas

If you look back at your flying career, before you did paragliding and before you flew sailplanes, you also did kite flying. Yes, exactly. Why did you start with kite flying back then?

9:00Anja Kohlrausch

started? It was just a whim with some students, student colleagues. It was just supposed to be a vacation and doing a bit of sport at the same time. More of a whim, really. And then I stuck with it.

9:19Lucian Haas

If I'm seeing this correctly, that was 1987, I think, when you got your kite license.

9:25Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, exactly. There weren't any paragliders back then at all.

9:28Lucian Haas

And then, when paragliders came along, did you switch to paragliding or did you stay with kite flying for a while first?

9:33Anja Kohlrausch

I did both. Then, over time, I eventually started soaring and stopped doing hang gliding, just doing paragliding and soaring in parallel. That was enough for me.

9:51Lucian Haas

Why was soaring more demanding for you than kiting? Like, you said, okay, if I have to choose an alternative, I'll drop kiting and go with soaring. But I'm sticking with paragliding. I think I always have a bit of a craving for something new.

10:06Anja Kohlrausch

And I was just fascinated by being able to fly really long distances with a glider, even without an engine. And being able to make a bit better use of the weather.

10:21Lucian Haas

With hang gliding, if I remember correctly, you even became a German champion once. So you were already successful there. And yet you dropped it. Yes, after

10:31Anja Kohlrausch

for several years then. I think I'm someone who always needs a lot of fun, enthusiasm, and a challenge in a positive sense. It's not really about the achievement, like being able to become German champion over and over again, but simply about experiencing something new again. And pushing the boundaries a bit, in a positive way. And gliding just triggered such an incredible fascination. And it was just so much fun for me. I think the success, which then also came with gliding, just follows automatically.

11:08Lucian Haas

Yes, in soaring, you could say you celebrated your greatest successes in your flying career, basically. Or most of them, at least if you look at it on paper. You were a multiple-time German champion, you flew various FAI records. Something like, to name one thing now, the 2017 soaring record, where you flew the longest distance for a woman with a pre-declared turnaround point. That was 1,137 kilometers in Namibia. What does something like that mean to you?

11:38Anja Kohlrausch

That's a flight experience that I think will always stay in my memory. It was just incredibly fascinating. For me, it's something I just love to look back on. There are such impressive landscapes there on the edge of the Namib Desert. Brilliant experiences. Simply a gift that you store away positively and love to remember.

12:05Lucian Haas

Tell me a bit about your soaring career. You probably weren't doing 1,000-kilometer cross-country flights right from the start. When you switched to soaring, you could already fly kites and paragliding. Did that do anything for you in terms of soaring?

12:24Lucian Haas

Yeah,

12:25Anja Kohlrausch

an incredible amount. You don't start as a pedestrian; you already know the air, you're familiar with it. Back then, I also joined a very nice soaring club. I remember one day in the Black Forest, in Freiburg, where there was an east wind and I didn't have a launch site for paragliding. So I just went to the neighboring soaring club and asked if I could fly along. And they said yes. They took me along right away and said, you can sit in the front too. You can steer there as well. A flight instructor flew along. And they grinned at me and asked if I wouldn't like to do that too. And of course I did, and I started. And I just found it so much fun and learned it very, very quickly, and also got the license.

13:16Anja Kohlrausch

And I even did my first cross-country flight after just half a year. And I enjoyed it so much that I just kept at it.

13:26Lucian Haas

And then it was one thing after another. You flew longer and longer distances until the records eventually came. What appealed to you, or what appealed to you about flying such records? I mean, you had to register these turning points, for example, declare them and say beforehand, I really want to fly a record now. What's the appeal of setting something like that as a goal? Yes,

13:50Anja Kohlrausch

actually, it's about your own limits. Always pushing what you can achieve just a little bit further. In truth, for a record like that—take a world record as an example—you probably make about 20 attempts, all of which fall just short of success, but they're all still huge amounts of fun. I have an incredible amount of joy in trying it again and again. Every flight is great. At some point, it works out, or it doesn't. In itself, the attempts—flying those long distances, world records in Namibia, or even the long distances with the glider in Germany—simply mean fun.

14:35Lucian Haas

That record you have, it's the longest distance for a woman. Is it the same with sailplanes as it is with paragliders, that actually very few women, I mean proportionally few women, do sailplane flying?

14:49Anja Kohlrausch

Yes. I'd guess it's about 10 percent right now.

14:55Lucian Haas

So, similar to paragliders, actually? I

14:58Anja Kohlrausch

I think so too. I mean, you're not a rarity. You're clearly a bit in the minority, but in itself, it's completely equal.

15:06Lucian Haas

Is it actually meaningful to make a distinction in soaring between a women's record and a men's record? I mean, it's basically the same aircraft you're flying and so on. And probably, even if you were to say I might weigh a bit less than a man, you can still carry ballast in a glider to at least compensate for that difference you might have with a paraglider, where you'd say a small, lighter woman just has to fly a small paraglider and probably has some performance disadvantages.

15:37Anja Kohlrausch

I think you can compensate for the disadvantages much better in soaring. And because of that, maybe we shouldn't overvalue these records. Because a man has flown further somewhere else. So there are simply additional leaderboards, and the man's record might be 3,000 kilometers, but flown in Argentina or Chile in the Andes, which isn't directly comparable either. So, I think these are just many lists of records showing what is possible and what women and men have already flown. I don't actually see any major disadvantages as a woman.

16:16Lucian Haas

Do you think that men who fly are more ambitious than women when it comes to goals and records like these?

16:26Anja Kohlrausch

Maybe. I can't speak from a man's perspective right now. I can guess that there might be a bit more ambition, but maybe that's also very different on an individual basis.

16:38Lucian Haas

In paragliding, which you've been doing more of again lately or over the last few years. After you realized that it's possible, that you can do cross-country flying, you've been successful again, and while you might not have won a German championship, at least in the XC Cup—which is like, you could say, the unofficial lowland championship in Germany—you've been the highest-placed woman in the overall standings for, I think, four or five years now. So basically always in first place whenever there's a women's ranking. And also in the individual classes you fly in, like the Sport class and Intermediate class, you've been on the podium almost every single time, I think.

17:26Lucian Haas

What makes you so successful there?

17:31Anja Kohlrausch

I think it's the closed tasks that have a high score here in the lowlands at the XC Cup that I just try. And if you then do a 115-kilometer triangle with the B-glider, that gives you so, so much. And then you just stand right at the top of the podium. In the DHV XC, that might not be quite as easy, because you don't get onto the podium quite as easily here in the lowlands. I think the conditions in the Alps are simply a notch better.

18:02Lucian Haas

But you don't go flying in the Alps at all? Do you always fly in the lowlands?

18:06Anja Kohlrausch

I used to do a lot of kiting and paragliding, actually all over the Alps, and at the moment, I've flown all over the Alps in a glider. Right now, I just like being at home in the evenings for private reasons to take care of my animals, so I enjoy flying locally here in the Odenwald and prefer to get back to the starting point as well. That way, I know I'll be back home in time in the evening.

18:32Lucian Haas

So, do the external constraints sort of force you into success?

18:37Anja Kohlrausch

No, you can't really put it like that. I mean, the external framework makes the most sense at the moment. And it's also a lot of fun to fly in the small local areas here in the Odenwald, even on the days when the weather is good. That's actually quite effective too. I don't have to spend a week on vacation in the rain in the Alps. So I think it's a nice option and alternative, not a compulsion at all.

19:07Lucian Haas

Well, you were a master of kite flying, a master of sailplane flying, and now I'll also say a master of paragliding. Are there such things? Like a pilot's gene? Or what do you have to have in your blood to be able to fly as well as you do in all disciplines?

19:25Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, I think flying is always similar. It's just slightly different aircraft that you use, and of course, you have to adjust the tactics and technique a bit. But basically, it's always flying. And I think you just have to be a bit of a flight nut, in a positive sense.

19:45Lucian Haas

What are you looking for? What do you look for in aviation? Joy, fun, even relaxation. Long-distance flights—is that relaxation for you? So, when you have such big goals and you're flying records, can you still relax? Yes,

20:03Anja Kohlrausch

Because it's like a flow experience in sports. So, we then experience an eight or nine-hour flight as if it were one hour, and everything else from everyday life is far away. And I think that's a criterion for relaxation. Mhm. It's about being completely absorbed in the task and doing nothing else that day, and also doing a few circles to take some nice photos. So that you can remember it later. Yes, the Namib Desert from above at 6,000 meters. So, time always...

20:38Lucian Haas

You say flow state. That's always a goal that many people would like to reach, because they say, yeah, then you fly by instinct and just do everything. Right, something like that. Is there any trick, a technique, anything, how you manage to prepare yourself so that you get into this flow state more easily? Or is it just an automatic process for you? Does flying just trigger it?

21:04Anja Kohlrausch

I think it triggers automatically for me when I have the chance to just try a long distance. Like I said earlier, it's not about having the success or having flown the record right now, but about trying it. And having a chance to do so. Just having an incredible amount of joy in it. And then it triggers for me. With soaring, I've noticed that I have to turn off the radio in any case, or turn the tracks if there's too much radio chatter. So on WMs, in the national team or something, I've noticed that it disrupted my flow state quite a bit.

21:44Lucian Haas

If you take these three types of flight—paragliding, kiting, and soaring—what is it? Paragliding, kiting, and soaring. Is there one of them where you would say it's easiest for you to get into a flow state?

21:58Anja Kohlrausch

I think paragliding. Why?

22:04Anja Kohlrausch

Because for me, the fun and the joy are always the top priority. And I always fly without a radio, in any case.

22:15Anja Kohlrausch

And it's just very direct with nature.

22:19Lucian Haas

Is soaring still too technical then, in comparison? The cockpit has everything, and all the things you have to pay attention to, and then just having that direct contact with the wind and all that—does the wind basically help promote the flow as well?

22:35Anja Kohlrausch

I think less so. At 200 km/h, I don't really want to feel the wind directly either. There are also very dynamic and great movements in soaring on the fast and long distances. I think it's just less common in soaring to have the chance to get into that kind of flow state and fly the route for yourself. In paragliding, it's actually always automatic that no one else is on the radio and you're more with yourself, and there's also less radio contact.

23:22Anja Kohlrausch

And control zones, long communications, or just navigation stuff in general are a bit more of a distraction in soaring, I'd say.

23:33Lucian Haas

So, in paragliding, you're much more with yourself and have to focus less on the outside?

23:39Anja Kohlrausch

Exactly. I just fly around all the airspaces and control zones with the paraglider anyway, because you're not allowed in there. And with gliding, you can just go in there and radio more. I try to organize it so that you can fly completely different routes.

23:58Lucian Haas

Do you also experience this flow state as something meditative?

24:04Anja Kohlrausch

Yeah, you could call it that.

24:07Lucian Haas

And if you say you experience nine hours as if it were only one, does it also happen to you that you say, okay, I've been flying, I've been turning something out, but you suddenly wake up into awareness while in the air and say, how did I actually get here? Somehow I've been cranking something out for the last half hour like in a meditative trance state or something, but I wasn't paying attention to things consciously anymore, it just flowed.

24:39Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, I could agree with that. But not like a trance where you actually don't know anything anymore—I don't think the flow state is that deep. I think a lot of it just happens with intuition, and you can't... I can't explicitly tell a colleague over the radio exactly why you decided on something at that moment. For yourself, the goal should be to see as many options as possible and weigh them, rather than just seeing one route or path. But being able to actually express that or tell someone else about it, I think that's difficult in such a state. It's more automatic then.

25:20Lucian Haas

The flow state would involve a lot of flying by instinct. How much preparation—where actual mental work is involved—do you put into these flights, or do you often just head out and say, "Let's see what happens"?

25:36Anja Kohlrausch

I think I do a lot of meteorological preparation in the morning, looking at where the good flying areas are, which routes make sense, if there's a lot of wind, if it's a one-way route or if a triangle makes sense. What routes are generally possible that day? I try to prepare quite well for that, and in the air, I try to stay as open as possible to all options. Especially since with paragliding you don't always have to specify the turning points in advance, but can have a rough plan and then take a shortcut or extend the route in a different direction. With soaring, you need a bit more preparation for so many points and...

26:25Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, when flying big tasks, you had to specify the turning points as precisely as possible beforehand. And a one-way trip didn't make sense either, because flying a thousand kilometers in one direction means it takes a few days to get back—nobody does that anyway.

26:40Lucian Haas

Gliding—you're always talking about preparation, setting waypoints, doing big tasks. Do you ever go gliding just to, like, hang out in the air for a bit, just cruise around somewhere? Or is gliding actually always... something very goal-oriented? I'd say the

26:59Anja Kohlrausch

most flights are more like, I'll fly around the site, do two hours of thermals, have a bit of fun and just fly around a bit. But flying near the site also means you're flying around the whole Odenwald a bit, that's the glide angle range. I think those are most of the flights, not really such long distances, but the ones where you're in the air the longest and have the most fun are the ones where you're actually out and about, where you haven't flown before. Like, really far away. That gives me at least a bit more motivation, and then I don't land after two hours, but I also feel like flying for eight or nine hours.

27:43Lucian Haas

Flying that far away doesn't work so well with a paraglider. I mean, you can fly longer distances, but in a different dimension. If you fly 1,000 kilometers in a sailplane, you'll maybe do 200 kilometers in proportion to the glider.

28:00Lucian Haas

Do you ever feel restricted sometimes when you're flying a paraglider?

28:05Anja Kohlrausch

No, because I don't think the joy depends on whether I flew 400 or 200 kilometers with the paraglider; I find that with the paraglider, you also see things far away and beautiful things during the flight. I have to adjust my tactics because it's simply a different speed rhythm, a slightly different tactic. But the joy. And the fun is the same, and it doesn't matter whether it's a kilometer more or less.

28:34Lucian Haas

Do you ever compare them while you're up there? Like, for example, you're flying a paraglider and think, oh, there's that great cloud with the glider. I'd just have to push the stick forward for a second and I'd basically be there already, whereas with the paraglider I probably wouldn't make it. Yeah, the annoying thing is, I do compare

28:51Anja Kohlrausch

I don't. I think, "There's a nice cloud over there, I'll just fly over quickly," and then along the way I realize, "Oh, I can't reach that altitude at all. Now I have to orient myself by ground features and ridge lines again." It took a little while to adjust to that and to realize that in that moment I'm not in a glider and need to apply a slightly different tactic.

29:17Lucian Haas

That means, if you look at your XC Cup routes—I've looked at a few of them—you can always see that in between, you have these beautiful altitudes, probably holding there under cloud streets or something, and then there are some longer stretches where you can see, ah, there you're maybe sinking more. Are those perhaps moments where you were too ambitious or too optimistic regarding reaching new lift?

29:42Anja Kohlrausch

It might be something like that sometimes, but I think it also happens automatically with paragliding—that when you're in the lowlands and don't catch a lifting line or a cloud formation, and there's a slightly larger gap between the clouds, you automatically drop again and then have to shift down a gear to climb back up first before you can maybe shift up a gear again.

30:09Lucian Haas

You started with kiting and paragliding and said you benefited a lot from that when it came to soaring. Then you've had a lot of success, or also great routes and other things, and gained a lot of experience with soaring. Is there anything you would say where you now benefit from paragliding from things you learned in soaring? Yes,

30:29Anja Kohlrausch

that's exactly that assessment of load-bearing lines and the route and path selection, flying small detours sometimes and looking at the cloud picture, and trying to fly along the cloud rows and cloud streets as much as possible. Also, not circling around uselessly in weak lift for a long time; I think that makes you a bit faster when you reflect on it. And being able to judge really well to always take the strongest lift. I've noticed from soaring that it's actually about always keeping the number of options high. So having several options and then choosing the strongest thermal.

31:14Lucian Haas

Which is significantly easier in soaring, because there you can more easily say, okay, this thermal is too weak, I'll just fly another 20 kilometers and there's nothing there, but with a paraglider you often can't do that as easily. When was that? You know with a paraglider, you say, I have to stay inside this one? With a glider, I'd fly on immediately, but now, here I have to bite. If on course

31:36Anja Kohlrausch

the cloud picture or the gaps between the clouds just look quite large. By now, I'm getting pretty good at catching the spots, saying, here you just need patience. Here it's going slower, here you circle.

31:56Lucian Haas

In paragliding and thermal flying, you often fly much tighter turns or circles. You can also crank out thermals where you probably would never fit in with a glider, and stuff like that. Are there things where you'd say, despite everything, I also got something from paragliding regarding where thermals detach from the terrain, because you also fly much closer to the ground more often and such, that you'd say you've also taken something away for glider flying, where you'd say you have a sort of advantage, a knowledge advantage over other glider pilots who don't know that from paragliding?

32:33Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, I think that was to some extent the case, because I was a newcomer to soaring and became successful quite quickly, and I think I just had that background and could sort of stroll through the air knowing where the possible drop-off edges actually are. And it's also true that you can get quite low with a glider—less often, but still. You can, of course, benefit a lot from the experience you gained flying close to the ground and actually being able to sense and fly the structure of the lift much better.

33:13Lucian Haas

With paragliding, you already mentioned the word line selection earlier. Especially with a paraglider that has such a poor, or with a glider that has such a poor glide ratio, a good line is often practically half the battle when it comes to cross-country flying. It's not just about saying I'm hitting the good thermals, but also the lines in between where maybe there's less sink or something like that, or weak lift, but you can fly straight ahead in the lift. How do you find such lines?

33:43Anja Kohlrausch

So I find them by looking at the clouds, and I find it very difficult when the sky is thermally blue.

33:50Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, observing the sky and specifically looking at the phases the clouds are in. Are they still building up or are they already breaking apart? And where are the cloud streets?

34:04Lucian Haas

So you're always trying to fly under the cloud streets then?

34:09Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, exactly, even here in the lowlands.

34:12Lucian Haas

Is that always possible with a paraglider, or are there also cloud streets where the distances between the clouds are often too large?

34:20Anja Kohlrausch

Is there? Especially if you want to switch from one line to another. Moving from one road to another is often a challenge, whereas it would be much easier with a seaplane.

34:35Lucian Haas

And when you don't have any clouds and have to orient yourself more by the ground, what do you pay the most attention to? Do you have a sort of checklist you work through, like a dry, harvested field and then the forest comes up, and so on? Or how do you go about it?

34:54Anja Kohlrausch

Basically, the bright, dry areas that are more convex in shape. With the best angle of incidence to the sun. Here in the lowlands, it's still important to have the wind direction in your head. And then you also basically fly the boundary, for example from the field to the forest, and use that as a break line. Sometimes the birds also show you very well where it goes up when you're low.

35:29Lucian Haas

Do you like flying with birds?

35:31Anja Kohlrausch

I love it. It's also one of my key experiences. These are key moments, like when I was at about 30 to 50 meters high on a very, very small slope during a cross-country flight and basically thought, in the next circle you have to land, and I held you there for about ten minutes on that little hill. And suddenly, a bird flew a little bit further out over an apple tree and made the circle. And I thought, I can do that too. And then I climbed 2,000 meters with the bird. That is a real key experience in my paraglider career.

36:04Lucian Haas

Do you say goodbye to birds like that when they've helped you, like saying, "Bye, I'm heading off now"? Like, do you build some kind of relationship with them in the air, at least for that brief moment where you're sharing the air with them?

36:18Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, exactly. At least a "thanks, buddy" still exists.

36:23Lucian Haas

And do you sometimes get the impression that you might be helping the birds? Like, that they're flying to you?

36:28Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, they fly to me.

36:32Anja Kohlrausch

But I think it's actually the other way around. That the birds are just much better than we are. And they don't necessarily come to me, but you just happen to see them, already in the thermals for a long time. Or they just shift around a bit to get to one. I think they're just significantly better than us. That means we paraglider pilots and sailplane pilots are usually flying towards the birds.

36:57Lucian Haas

In soaring, you make much larger circles and other things. Are the birds still there, though? Like, good landmarks? Yeah, exactly.

37:09Anja Kohlrausch

The circle isn't that big. It's about 50 meters in diameter.

37:14Anja Kohlrausch

Actually, exactly the same. Also flying towards the birds, along with them.

37:18Lucian Haas

And the birds are basically just as afraid of gliders as they are of paragliders. So, do they stay inside the thermals just the same? Or is that already a giant bird to them, where they say, I have to get away from that quickly now?

37:32Anja Kohlrausch

That's the interesting thing. I mean, they don't fly away. They are accepted just the same. The sailplanes.

37:41Lucian Haas

You have, let's talk a bit about something human. Basically, with your career, you've experienced three different, let's say, scenes. The scene of the hang gliders, the scene of the paragliders, and the scene of the sailplanes. Are there any typical differences in the character of these three types of flyers? Or are they actually very similar and have a very similar mindset and approach to flying?

38:08Anja Kohlrausch

I think they're all very similar. One small difference might be,

38:14Anja Kohlrausch

you can see that soaring is really a club sport and you only get into the air if you really invest a lot of time and effort into the club. And that with paragliding and hang gliding, it leans a bit more towards individual sports. You simply spend less time on club work and are also a bit freer to say, I'm going, the wind isn't right, I'm just heading back now, or I'll come later. That's not really possible with soaring.

38:45Lucian Haas

So, are paraglider pilots on average more individualistic? Exactly, you could put it that way. Are they also weirder because of that?

38:54Anja Kohlrausch

I haven't observed that so far.

38:59Lucian Haas

Yeah, or more egocentric?

39:01Anja Kohlrausch

No. I'd see the individualistic side more positively. And I also believe that glider pilots are all individualistic. But maybe the shared sport just carries a bit more weight. Because there's no other way to do it if you can't get the glider off the ground otherwise.

39:26Lucian Haas

When you're flying long distances over flat terrain, how do you sustain yourself during that time? I mean, what about food, drinks, and going to the bathroom?

39:34Anja Kohlrausch

Yeah, just take water bottles or a hydration bladder with you. Spread some sandwiches, like in a glider, and get going. With paragliding, so far I can really only manage to take a little something to drink with me. I'm not that well-provisioned yet; I land totally hungry.

39:58Lucian Haas

Why? I mean, wouldn't it be useful to have something to eat in between, even for concentration?

40:03Anja Kohlrausch

It would be super sensible. I'm just looking for something that's easy to eat on the go without the risk of dropping it.

40:11Lucian Haas

And what about peeing? Do you do all the long distances with diapers, or are you someone with a big bladder who can hold it well? Both. Even with paragliding with diapers? Or is that mainly with glider flying, when you really say it's going to be eight or nine hours, the really long flights, where you obviously need it? So if you go to the launch site in your area in the Odenwald, do you always have a diaper in your luggage? Not always.

40:40Anja Kohlrausch

And that can... that can become a problem if it suddenly turns into a really long flight.

40:45Lucian Haas

Of the flights you've done there in the Odenwald with the paraglider, is there one that has particularly stayed with you?

40:55Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, there's definitely one—it was the flight from Heidelberg to Regensburg.

41:00Lucian Haas

Just under 260 kilometers, right? That was a one-way flight. Yeah, exactly.

41:04Anja Kohlrausch

I always thought it had to be possible to fly over 200 kilometers. And on that day, I set my mind to it, and it worked out.

41:13Lucian Haas

So, was this goal of Regensburg, did you already have that in mind too? Or was it just the goal of wanting to fly more than 200 kilometers, that should be possible today, and then I'll see how far I get?

41:25Anja Kohlrausch

So Regensburg was on my mind that day because it would just be with a tailwind. It was only a west-northwest wind, so it was pretty clear that it would go in that direction.

41:33Lucian Haas

I think Armin Harig has flown 300 kilometers on a similar route before. Would that be a goal for you?

41:40Anja Kohlrausch

Sure. Exactly, I also think that it's possible.

41:44Lucian Haas

Possible in the sense that you're saying you'd like to do it too—that anyone can achieve it, or that you'd like to take it on yourself sometime?

41:53Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, exactly, so for me it's possible. Although you always need a bit of luck too. On that day, you just have to manage to connect to the thermals here in the flatlands. Yes, and then everything just has to go well in between. But I'm pretty sure that it can work.

42:09Lucian Haas

If other pilots, or even flight instructors, come up to you and say, "Anja, how do you actually do that? Give me a tip, how can I get out on a long cross-country flight here in the flatlands better? I see you always manage to do it so beautifully," what would you recommend to them? Or what do you tell them?

42:29Anja Kohlrausch

I'd say just keep trying, trying, and trying. You actually get better and learn more because of that. I don't think there's an absolute recipe for it. Every day is different. And keep trying with joy, over and over again. And if it doesn't work out, that's okay too.

42:49Lucian Haas

So if you want to fly far, you have to go fly. Something like that.

42:54Anja Kohlrausch

Exactly. And you have to keep it in the back of your mind a bit. When I have the chance, the weather is good, I catch the thermals, and I'm up there, to have that in the back of your mind. Like, hey, maybe something really big is possible. So, also trying the big things.

43:15Lucian Haas

And when you see days where a lot of people take off, but you get significantly further than the others. What's the reason for that?

43:25Anja Kohlrausch

I think I just got a bit lucky and chose a different route. Or maybe I got away on the first try and didn't need two attempts on the mountain to catch thermals. There are many days where the others are all further ahead than I am. I wouldn't overvalue it at all.

43:44Lucian Haas

Are you maybe a bit... reserved, I'd say. Because in terms of the results, it's already clear that you probably... well, from what I read, including comments in the XC Cup, there are many who say, "Ah, Anja showed us once again how it's actually done."

44:00Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, but the comments also come from those who normally fly much further than I do. I think it's just a nice bit of mutual recognition between pilots. I believe everyone who flies knows that a bit of luck is involved. And that it really doesn't matter if someone flew 10 kilometers or 20 kilometers further on a given day. And maybe they had just as much fun flying thermals on the local mountain that day. Just for as long as you feel like it. I don't think there's any ranking there. It's a decentralized mass-participation competition that's supposed to be fun. Exactly.

44:42Lucian Haas

Are you someone who also sometimes just... and says, I'll hang out in the air for two hours and stay completely local, just flying back and forth along the ridge? Or would something like that be rather boring for you?

44:55Anja Kohlrausch

No, that's actually the rule. So that's maybe 90 percent of the flights. And the rest is just a chance to catch a thermal like that once in a while. And to be able to try out a cross-country flight. Like a cherry on top.

45:13Lucian Haas

What do those 90 percent give you? Not in terms of distance, at least not successful flights. A whole lot of fun.

45:23Anja Kohlrausch

Fun, movement in the air, meeting friends.

45:29Lucian Haas

To sum up, one more question. You've already achieved so much in your aviation life. So, regarding your successes, both in hang gliding, sailplane flying, and paragliding—do you still have big goals? And if so, which ones?

45:46Anja Kohlrausch

Many beautiful, long routes with the paraglider, if I get the chance.

45:51Lucian Haas

But they don't have to be marked with any specific number, they just have to be big.

45:58Anja Kohlrausch

Yes, maybe just to always expand your own personal bests, your own experiences. To fly in a different direction again, one you haven't been in yet. To fly a nice triangle again. To land by the car again in the evening. To have flown over the Odenwald with the paraglider. There are so many beautiful things you can still experience. Actually, you can never fly enough.

46:23Lucian Haas

Why is size, maybe measurable in points or whatever, why is that relevant?

46:30Anja Kohlrausch

For me, it's always synonymous with flying longer, so more fun. Being in the air for even longer.

46:37Lucian Haas

I mean, you could basically fly relatively locally for five hours too and say, I'm doing this small triangle route and flying it five times. Instead of choosing the big route and having the same amount of time in the air. And I'd still probably have all sorts of different experiences throughout the day because the thermals change over the course of the day, are in different places, and all that. But even so, the appeal is somehow to be able to say that at the end there's a high score, which wouldn't result in a big distance score on a flight like that, if you're basically flying the same lap five times locally. Is the number then important in any way?

47:15Anja Kohlrausch

No, the score isn't important at all in that moment. No, it's not important. You just fly those small rounds much, much more often. So for me, that's the rule for flying. I don't stay right next to the mountain either; I do lots of small rounds for five hours. The other thing is just rarer and you don't get the chance as often. That's why maybe it's important to actually use it and seize the opportunity.

47:45Anja Kohlrausch

I think the score is secondary in that moment. It's about the beautiful flight.

47:51Lucian Haas

What's the most fun part about flying for you?

47:56Anja Kohlrausch

Yeah, I think it's forgetting the everyday routine and just flying from cloud to cloud, or sometimes just seeing the world from above for an hour over the local mountain.

48:09Anja Kohlrausch

That's actually a good question. I couldn't even put my finger on it.

48:14Anja Kohlrausch

Flying in itself is beautiful.

48:17Lucian Haas

Then let's just leave that as an open question at the end. Not being able to name it exactly, but getting into the air and flying from cloud to cloud. Anja, thank you very much. Thank you for your lovely stories about your successful flights—not just attempts, but really great flights you've already done with kites, soaring, and paragliding. I wish you many more beautiful flights. May you also fly at the very front again this year in the XC Cup and submit your great long distances from the Odenwald there? I will definitely be keeping a closer eye on it now, because after I've looked at the flights and seen yours, I'll go, "Oh! That's really exciting, to see how you do that." Thank you.

49:01Anja Kohlrausch

Thank you very much.

49:08Lucian Haas

That was episode number 132 of Podz-Glidz with Anja Kohlrausch. You can find the show notes for this episode, along with some additional links, in the Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz. If you want to hear more episodes like this, you can not only subscribe to Podz-Glidz on your preferred podcatcher. You can also financially support my work as a patron. How much do you give? You can choose completely freely. By the way, a commonly chosen contribution is 60 euros a year, or about 5 euros a month. But no matter what you give, every amount contributes to ensuring that Podz-Glidz and Lu-Glidz can continue to operate and develop in the service of the paraglider scene in the future. For that, I say thank you.

49:54Lucian Haas

All the information on how your contribution reaches me can be found on the website of my paraglider blog www.Lu-Glidz.blogspot.com. There, you'll find the "Support" menu item. Lu-Glidz is spelled L-U-G-L-I-D-Z. Until next time. Don't fall from the sky. Ciao.

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