The Natur sports stadium is used by so many people; there are so many different interests coming together there. The landscape conservationists, the bird watchers, others who believe that certain areas shouldn't be traversed, entered, or flown over at all. The same applies to cross-country skiers, the same to mountain bikers, the same to this very typical Swiss sport of orienteering. And preserving that for a future generation is a very personal concern of mine.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the cosmos of paragliding.
Today with Urs Frey. And I'm Lucian Haas.
Who invented it? The Swiss. At least when it comes to an organization that represents the interests of hang gliding and paraglider pilots nationwide. The Swiss Hang Gliding Association, SAV, was founded over half a century ago. Five years before the German DHV. The 50th anniversary of the SAV is to be celebrated at the end of August with a large aviation festival in Interlaken. What will be on offer there is presented by SAV president Urs Frey in this 139th episode of Podz-Glidz. Of course, the talk only touches on this event tip in passing. Urs tells us about important milestones in the association's history and where it sees its tasks today.
We also talk about what personally motivates him to do the association work and what joys, but also moments of frustration, he experiences along the way. In addition to his regular job, his work as an SAV official, and his family commitments, Urs Frey even finds the time occasionally to get into the air himself. It's less frequent than he would like, but he still manages to fit in the odd micro-adventure.
If you like Podz-Glidz, then why not support my work on it? As a sponsor. You can find out how easy it is on the Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz, specifically on the "Fördern" page.
Urs, how do you become president of the SHV? And I don't mean the election stories, like the technical process, but what appeals to you about taking on a task like that?
So for me, it's actually kind of funny because it basically started with a misdirected email.
I've been flying since 1989 and, to be honest, I haven't really engaged with the association much, but we replaced a delta ramp in a flight area. When I wrote about that, I sent it to the association and we're also getting support funding for it. Then someone pressed the wrong button and asked, "Who is this guy?" So I wrote back and said, "Yes, I'm [Name] and [Name], I fly, I'm interested, and I do [this]." Then they said, "Yes, interesting." They looked at my profile, we met once, and that was at the moment they had a new board member and were looking for a new president.
And that's how it all came about. But you also asked me about my motivation.
Yeah, what appeals to you about taking on a task like that? Or what was it that appealed to you?
On one hand, I've been involved in aviation since 1989, of course, and I've gained insight into the huge complexity of what it all involves. And then, acting in a steering and supporting role. That interested me very quickly. And that has also been proven true over the years that I've been involved.
Are you just an official nowadays, or do you still actively fly a paraglider?
I think that's the most common question I get, but it's completely justified. Aside from that, I don't really like the term "functionary" that much. Yes, I do fly. It's very important to me. But in the triad I'm in—which means a very demanding job—that's my bread and butter, where I earn my money. I work for the Swiss government. And then being a father and at the same time having the hobby of flying. This triad isn't exactly easy. And flying definitely comes a bit to short. But it does add up to about 50 flights a year. But I hope that I'll have more time for it again after that.
To interpret that correctly.
You just mentioned a triad. But actually, regarding the roles you named—having your job, your family life, and flying—being president is actually the fourth part. From that perspective, it should actually be a quartet.
Well, I've combined that with the flying. And flying myself and then being active in aviation as the association president—I've combined those. In that sense, it's a triad. But within that third part, I do more presidential work than flying.
Does that bother you sometimes?
Yes, a definite yes. It bothers me sometimes.
When does it not bother you? I mean, what moments as president can you enjoy where you think, "Right now, I'd rather be president, have this role, and be active in this capacity rather than being in the air?"
There are incredibly many beautiful moments. On one hand, beautiful moments are the interactions with members who describe a problem to me or thank me because we were able to help with an issue. I also enjoy the exchange, the international exchange with the other presidents and CEOs, where there is also a great sense of camaraderie. But when I look out the window—by the way, Lucian, today I can see one of the most frequented flight areas in Switzerland from my window—and think, "Actually, it would be a nice day for a flight," then I'd quite like to be up there as well.
So this balance is sometimes not that easy.
And now you have to do a podcast and you can't go flying.
I'm happy to do it. This is actually my premiere, and I'm happy to do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have said yes.
It's quite similar for me, actually. Today I would have... Is it... Has it been days or weeks since the first decent towing day here, I mean a winch towing day, where I could have driven there? But more good days will keep coming.
Then I thank you for refraining from doing that for me.
What are the unpleasant sides of being president?
Let's put it this way. The challenging aspects are that the aviation community is made up of very strong characters. They live and breathe for their hobby. Sometimes it's significantly more than a hobby; it's truly their life. And these strong characters sometimes have very different interests that don't necessarily always align with the association's interests. Or they have issues with one another that sometimes even escalate into conflicts. And for someone who would actually prefer things to be a bit more harmonious in the interest of the aviation community, but who sometimes has to endure or help shape such conflicts, those are rather the more unpleasant sides.
Are you a diplomat?
You have to say, yes. I was just being diplomatic.
Okay, everyone can imagine for themselves what kind of guy he's seeing right now... who says, okay, with this one you have to act very diplomatically in order to handle certain situations accordingly. Have there been situations, or have there been times, where you've said, I really don't have to put up with this?
Yes, that happened and it still happens again and again. And there are also mechanisms for how to get out of that situation. There's that nice English phrase, "we agree to disagree." So we agree that we don't agree. And that's also the point where it's best to just let it be, let it rest, and then maybe try to resume the conversation on a second attempt.
Have you managed to find solutions for all the critical issues in the end?
No, honestly, no. But that's also the possibility that you can take it to a different level. We have a very good managing director at SAV who takes on certain issues that can be handled. Or I can pass it on to a board colleague and we say, "Look, let's leave it for now and get back together in six months." Those are all the kinds of options there are. But sometimes, it just doesn't work.
Those are all things that are actually still internal to the scene. At least, that's how it sounds. Now, you or the SAV, in your role, obviously deal a lot with authorities and other bodies. Are there also problem areas there, or would you actually say the work is almost easier than with your own scene?
That always depends a bit on the history. So, when I came on as president, a major topic was how we handle motorized aviation. Is there an authorization for it? Is there not? We were relatively close to an authorization process that then didn't work out. There were a lot of contacts involved there, but I was only on the very fringes of that. But I did maintain contact with the relevant minister. However, by then, as we say in Switzerland, the damage was already done. The decision had already been made, and I couldn't turn it around anymore. Today, we have a very, very restrictive solution compared to Germany.
But there are certain possibilities for electric aviation in Switzerland. And then there are also phases—now I have to go back a bit, this is also the difference compared to Germany, for example, or Austria—where we can perform certain sovereign airspace tasks on behalf of the government. There are contracts for that. And these contracts are tendered again and again. And you have to apply for them again. And those involve more intensive contact with the authorities, where you have to advocate for it to be maintained. And that we get what we want, which we have also succeeded in very well. Or then there are moments where my professional and private lives mix, because I also often have authority and government contacts in my professional environment.
And then I can just work that in and say, by the way.
I had this funny situation: in the department I'm in, the Department of the Interior, there's a new boss coming from a region where there's a lot of aviation. And while my colleagues were saying everything they're currently doing in terms of projects during the introductory round, I started the conversation by saying I know her and the pilots who fly in her area. And she immediately dropped everything and said, "Yes, exactly, and I've worked with that one before, and stuff like that." And then we talked briefly about aviation before we pivoted back to the actual political issues. So, sometimes that's an opportunity to use those kinds of contacts.
You just said that for some of the tasks the SRV has, you sometimes have to reapply. Is there some kind of competition in Switzerland? Like, is there another association or something that would say, "He's going to apply too," and then you wouldn't get it anymore?
That can be purely theoretical, but that wasn't the
Case. Purely theoretically, there aren't any, so regarding paragliders and kites, meaning sailing gliders, are you the only representatives in Switzerland? That's the case, but
if you put that in writing, other people might consider whether they want to take on these air sovereignty responsibilities, but that wasn't the case. The DRV could apply. Really? Yes, you can try. No, I was just joking.
I don't know if anyone really wants to take on those kinds of aviation authority responsibilities, because it's probably not always fun what comes with it. That's true.
Let's briefly change the subject, also to stay with the SAV, but this year in particular is a special year for the SAV. It's celebrating its 50th anniversary. That means, I assume, I suspect it's also another additional workload for you. Is it a pleasure or a burden?
That's definitely a pleasure,
because I pushed very, very hard for us not to just do this with a slightly larger general assembly—that's what we call it here in Switzerland when we all get together—what do you call that in Germany at the DRV?
Annual General Meeting. Annual General Meeting, exactly, which I also use once, and I believe you were there too. Yes,
I was there too.
That's where we saw each other for the first time, exactly. I pushed very hard for there to be other activities surrounding this anniversary, because I think, first of all, the younger pilots should have the opportunity to remember this pioneer era once again. It's also super exciting for me, by the way, but we'll maybe get to that briefly later—to experience something from this pioneer era, because I started right in the post-pioneer era of paragliding in '89; it started in '86, '89 was just the beginning of the boom and I dove very deeply into this subject, it pushed me very much and additionally, it was a personal need for me to really celebrate that with a big festival, and that's what we're doing at the end of August.
That
means that it's the actual act for the 50th anniversary, you're throwing a big party. It
There are two acts: the formal act, which was the 50th anniversary general assembly that we held in Anzère at exactly the same location where the first general assembly took place 50 years ago—I must emphasize, in the same hall, and not much has been renovated there in 50 years. That was a funny experience, and then about what felt like 50 pioneers from back then also showed up, so we quickly did the part that has to be done formally, and then we already had a first small celebration, which was very much focused on the past, where people could talk about what it was like and exchange stories.
There were also several people who had fallen out and were meeting again after a long time, which created some very nice scenes. And now for the second act: for all members and interested circles, on August 30th, 31st, and September 1st in Interlaken, where we can hopefully celebrate a beautiful festival in good weather.
What kind of festival is this for aviators? Three days—what do you do there? So, give me a quick summary of everything on the program just to get a bit of an impression.
Interlaken is, so to speak, one of the hotspots for aviation in Switzerland, with great infrastructure, a large landing field right in the middle of town, very prominent, and right next to it is a congress center. We can use both of those over the three days, and there will be lectures—Krigel Maurer will be there, Thomas Thörrier will be there, there will be other speakers, there will be people telling stories from the pioneer era, we will show old aircraft, and ideally, if it works out, we will show the premiere of a new film we commissioned about the fascination of flying from back then until today, which, if we manage it, should be shown on Swiss television.
There is a small ceremony that I'm allowed to attend, there is a large campsite where you can stay overnight and there will also be music, gatherings, food, drinks, there is a small market, there is an acro show, there is, weather permitting, a Swiss Cup competition where people will be flying in, if the weather holds up, there is a Hike and Fly fun competition where Krigel will also participate, there is a night flight and there is a tombola—I don't know what that's called in Germany, where you can buy tickets with a chance to win something more than just a Swiss thing, a great prize, namely the number 50, which we will be raffling off again.
Exactly, we have SAV numbers for everyone who has flown in Switzerland; those are the numbers you attach to the glider. In the meantime, we're in the high five-figure range, and we were able to clear the number 50, so it's going to be there and it will be truly unique.
You were able to free it up, meaning it wasn't available and you had to take it away from someone?
No, no, she was free. I don't know the story exactly. These numbers have been issued since the beginning of aviation, and of course, the 50s, the two-digit numbers, those are all Delta pilots. So there must have been some kind of conversation, but at least she's free now and can be reassigned.
There's a chance that a paraglider pilot might win it too, and then it would be the first two-digit SAV number to be applied to a paraglider. Would you like it, then?
50? To be honest, I'd be happy to step back and let another member have it, but I would take it.
SAV, how much of that have you personally experienced or helped shape? I mean, since when would you say you've actually been involved in this association work for a while?
So really, until 2016, I was a very, very typical member who had a few touchpoints with the association—namely paying the annual invoice and the great
association magazine. We have a great magazine, the Swiss Glider, which we produce with a lot of effort, and other than that, I didn't have anything else. And then there's, and this is a Swiss specialty, we also have an insurance solution that we offer to members in the liability area and many other insurances, but for the average member, like I was, it's primarily this liability insurance with a higher level of coverage.
With the touchpoints. And then I joined in 2016 and saw how multi-layered the work being done is. Especially on the regulatory side, where we do a lot of work to make flying possible in its current form. The regular members don't really see that, but there's a lot of work behind it. And that was a big effect for me, where I was then able to get up to speed quickly. And not to forget, we entered a situation in 2016 where the association was in a somewhat difficult financial position, and the first focus was then also on the finances.
Well, you're not exactly an old hand in the association if you only really joined in 2016. But you've probably done some reading and had plenty of contact with the old-timers and such. How has the role of the SAV changed over its 50 years? Were there any real breaks or highlights where you'd say, those were really decisive...
Turning points? Well, this focus on history has actually intensified a bit this year. Yes, there were breaks. I was truly fascinated when I spoke with those pioneers at the beginning, regarding how they were aware that it was quite dangerous back then, because aircraft that weren't completely safe were being pushed to the limit, and it led to some really, really serious accidents. There was a well-known skier in Switzerland, Roger Staub, who died in a flutter crash, and that triggered a huge media outcry, with the result that the first development phase was really about, hey, how can we get a handle on this?
What can we work on in terms of materials to improve this? The safety features, like for example the emergence of reserve parachutes that were built in.
What could be done regarding the materials? That was really such an initial development step, where the association and the industry's self-regulation were also important points. Then, of course, the emergence of paragliders and then the rivalry, as I've perceived it in other sports, for example skiing and snowboarding. Also here, with paragliding and with delta flying.
What... what did they tell me at the beginning? I'm a "tea bag flyer" versus the "stiff wing flyers," and we're taking each other's spots—and an important point there was that we really grew together into a community, which is truly the case today. Of course, the balance of power has shifted since then, clearly.
With paragliding and its development and boom, corresponding structures had to be created. In the meantime, we have a professional office with about 15 permanent employees and about 30 people who are not permanent staff, mainly the experts we employ, like examination experts. An enormous amount of structural work was done to make the sport safer and to provide certain services. This development is currently happening again, where we are considering, hey, what are we doing in the area of digitalization or on what new legs are we putting the sport? In a sport where many members also say, yes, I'll take a look at the x-half sometimes, but I don't necessarily need real competitive sports.
So finding that balance and bringing it into a new, future-oriented form is something we are currently focusing on very heavily.
What other topics are currently on the SAV's main agenda, or what is particularly important to you personally?
One important point is, of course, and I am also in regular contact with other sports, bracket open, it's also a bit different from Germany, we are part of the Swiss -Olympic movement in Switzerland. Although we are not Olympic, but I'd have a funny story about that later, we are not an executive Olympic sport, I am in regular contact with these communities and I see it everywhere, the sports stadium nature, that is used by very, very many people, there are so many different interests coming together, the landscape conservationists, the bird watchers, others who think certain areas shouldn't be entered, accessed, or flown over at all.
The same applies to ski tourers, the same applies to mountain bikers, the same applies to that very typical Swiss sport of orienteering, and preserving that for a future generation is a very personal matter for me.
And did you just say there's also a funny story regarding the Olympic side of paragliding? Then tell it again now, what was so funny about it?
I asked, I said, what's the deal with the pioneers regarding Olympic and non-Olympic status? And then someone came up to me and said, "Look, we were with Juan Antonio Sanaranch." Aha, okay. And we spoke with him back then and he gave us the status as an Olympic sport. There's a document, I haven't seen it yet, there's a document where that's stated. But it distinguishes between practiced Olympic sports and those that have Olympic status. That's my understanding, my very rudimentary understanding based on the conversation. So it seems to be that we have a kind of Olympic status, but we don't practice it.
As far as I know, there have been considerations before, or I think at some Asian Games they also looked into whether at least some sub-disciplines of paragliding—I think it was mainly about accuracy landings—could somehow become Olympic, and that it was sort of tested out. So maybe one day it will happen.
I've also kicked off that discussion a bit in our sports scene. There are two very different opinions on it.
You can see with other sports, like sport climbing or something, that money suddenly started flowing in with the Olympic status, and they've lost part of their original scene culture. And with us, this sense of togetherness, flying together even though you fly individually, is already very pronounced. And there isn't much money in it; it's mostly about camaraderie, and that's a very good question. If we want that, do we want it, or do we want to keep it as it is?
In Germany, there's sometimes a discussion—not at the association level, but often at the club level—where it's observed that paragliding is still booming in a certain way, or is booming again after the Corona times and such. And you see that, in some cases, the areas as a whole are almost overcrowded and are already causing more problems, or there are clubs that say only club members are allowed to fly in our areas and so on. Does something like that exist in Switzerland, where people are considering how many more of us can actually become members?
First of all, in a strategic consideration by the association, we clearly stated that membership recruitment is not the association's task; we excluded that from the strategic goals, as we generally leave that to the scene. Simply put, we are now at just over 20,000 members of the association, and growing is not the goal. But yes, we see that after Corona, outdoor sports in general, and flying as well—especially paragliding—naturally experienced a certain surge. But it's leveling off now. Nevertheless, there is still certain density behavior in some flight areas.
So, if I look out the window here, I live near Solothurn, and over there on the right is the Weissenstein; right there, it's an issue that on this relatively small launch field, when the conditions are very good for cross-country flying, there's an insane gathering of pilots.
Of course, the technical possibilities have also contributed to this, and you're very involved in that too—the meteo assessments, the tools people have that give them specific recommendations on where they could go and what it might look like there. People are already talking a bit about the "lemming effect" or herds heading to one place because of these tools. And that has already led to really large concentrations of pilots due to these tools. That's also a point we're considering, how we're going to deal with that.
Does the SAV have any ideas on how to say, okay, we might not be in the masses, actually not that many, but only in specific spots because these masses concentrate on individual hotspots in a way. How do you actually get people distributed better?
I don't think that's the association's task, but it is the association's task to help the clubs manage the flying areas. So we think about that a lot—it's the same as in Germany—the clubs are in contact with the landowners and they get these areas. If we didn't have the clubs, we wouldn't have the preservation of the flying areas. And in certain conflicts, we've already helped with specialists to preserve these areas. But managing the pilots, that's really something I don't necessarily think is the association's task.
As president of the SAV, you held a rotating role—you were president of the EHPU, the European Hang Gliding and Paragliding Union, for a year, and then even two years because of Corona. What does the SAV get out of the work with the EHPU? Can you learn anything from the other European neighbors in any way? Or as an association that's been around for 50 years, are you actually providing development aid for other associations?
Yes, the EHPU. Well, historically, I think I'm the involuntary longest-serving president of the EHPU because of Corona. And I first had to understand what the EHPU actually is. Funny story. The EHPU always meets at the beginning of the year in a European city. And the first time I went, I went to Madrid. And I noticed how very, very interested and curious all these executives and presidents came up to me. Until I realized, shit, we're the next ones hosting the annual meeting and they want to know where it is and what it is and so on and so forth.
So I was able to take over the presidency, and I quickly realized that it's a relatively loose network with
different focuses. One focus is lobbying in Brussels. Right now, it's around the drone issues, where we're also working with another association. The rest is the exchange and mutual assistance between the countries. But not in a crazy structured way. That's why I say it's a relatively loose network. We just had the point where certain Eastern European countries asked, "Hey, what does it look like with the insurance solutions? How do you do it?" So there's a mass email, and the different countries then reply. In that sense, it helps with the exchange, because many of the insurers are active internationally—the big groups—and if you know what they do in other countries...
...offered solutions, then that naturally helps in the negotiations. The land use story, so land usage, that's also something we exchange information on regularly, but it's not a very structured and centrally managed association. There are rotating presidents and a general secretary who does this part-time; he's an Englishman who is also simultaneously the managing director of the English association, and that's more or less the structure that exists there. During the Corona period, I had the honor of heading the presidency there, and we exchanged information more intensively on how different countries are dealing with it and what requirements they have.
And we were also able to share certain usage concepts we had developed and for which we had received approval to fly there again. But you have to imagine it as very loose. Okay. But it's fun to meet the people and the exchange is very collegial, and you once did a podcast with Charlie Joest—I think you called him the entertainer—and every time we met, Charlie would hum the song Volare at the bar, and then 40 faces would belt out Volare in the bar, and moments like that...
sense of belonging and exchanging ideas with one another, having conversations and sharing memories, but also looking toward the future—that's very nice.
And as a unifying element, regarding aviation, is there also something where you see, oh, here there are somehow 30 different countries present, is there anything where you say, here there are clear differences, where you see even within this association work or in the thinking of the people involved, that you say, a pilot in Italy or in Portugal or whatever, ticks a bit differently at some point than a Swiss one?
Yes, sure. But that has more to do with the political system or how a country is governed. So if we take the French, they are managed in a very, very centralized way, and we were surprised to note how certain directives came from Paris—like regional land restrictions—and we were like, what? How can the center control it like that? That's different for us, because we have a very federalist system in Switzerland, which means the cantons and municipalities have relatively a lot of power, and the central state is somewhat weaker; so of course, there are many different, diverse solutions, for example, regarding the issue of land use.
or the nature conservation issue. Of course, there is a framework provided by the government, but then there is a lot of leeway that is used in that way. And that is somewhat different in countries that are very centrally governed. For example.
How well-known is the SHV actually in Switzerland? I mean, if this acronym appears somewhere in the newspaper, does everyone know what it means?
No, because the acronym isn't protected. The Schweizerischer Hanfverband, the Schweizerische Hebammenverband, and the Schweizerische Handballverband all have the same acronym.
Ah, okay.
That's the reason why we still have the French addition on our website, for example. FSVL? You probably know that better. But it's also because the term hang gliding is a bit of a self-explanatory term, isn't it? But when I then go and say, I come from all the paraglider and delta pilots,
then it becomes clearer faster, because practically everyone I deal with in some way has a connection to it, whether it's their uncle who flies, or they've heard of Kegel Maurer, or they've gone flying themselves. Or just a few days ago, I was in contact with a former Swiss Federal Councillor who is now applying for a high-level sports office and told me about how she used to fly herself before she went into politics and then wasn't allowed to anymore. She even did a test flight, but it was aborted due to weather conditions, and then she didn't go back. So everyone has a connection somewhere, and it's very nice in the conversations, as it usually leads to really good discussions.
Whether it's stories about great experiences, but of course, the point also comes up where we know someone who had an accident or even passed away; that's something that comes up occasionally. But the positive feedback outweighs the other stories.
Let's change the subject a bit, away from the SHV and from you as an official, even though you don't like that word, of course. Now, you're still an active pilot, as you said. You get about 50 flights a year. If you were to tell your grandchildren or great-grandchildren about your paragliding days later on, whatever, what are the standout stories and experiences where you'd say, these are the classics that you always pull out?
Yeah, the classics from the early days are, of course, the ones where I didn't exactly know what I was doing. And one such story is, I grew up in a family without a car, which you can't even imagine in Germany. So I bought a Vespa with my first bit of money, and that Vespa was the ultimate freedom. A tent could fit on it, a paraglider could fit on it, and a few clothes could fit on it. And so I went as far as Crete, but I also went to Corsica. And somehow, I turned my gaze toward the peaks there and thought, now you're just going to hike up there and fly down. And I probably did one of the first flights in
Corsica is like a hand with a finger, and if you point that finger up, there's a 1,300-meter peak. So I just hiked up there with two liters of water, 1,300 meters through the maquis, saying, "Now you're going to fly down." With no knowledge of the weather—which didn't really exist back then—I arrived at the top, found a spot where I could take off, and then there was a massive sink. In that situation, I had to wait for the right moment, cut through some of the maquis with a Swiss Army knife, and then actually fly out with my legs shaking.
and
sink, then flying all the way down to the beach and grabbing a quick cola in the next village because I was parched. Those are the kinds of stories that lean more into the survival side. Also included are the times I was in very difficult situations where I needed a helicopter rescue.
But in Switzerland, was that? Once in Germany,
once in Switzerland, and in Germany it took a brutally long time for the helicopter to arrive. And just before sunset, they were finally able to rescue me from that snowdrift where I was sitting. Then come many friendly experiences. I was in Berkeley, California, at the university for a year, and there's the hang gliding. Back then it was called the Berkeley Hang Gliding Club. Paragliding was added in the meantime. And you have to imagine, it was almost like the post-hippie era, where you'd just meet up on Friday evening, everyone had a sleeping bag and a stove, everyone had a flight device with them, and then you'd head off somewhere.
Then we'd lay out a big carpet and everyone would sleep on it, have a campfire, and then the next day we'd go flying together. They were very happy that I was there as a glacier pilot because I was the one who went out first in the morning, because the conditions were too rough, and they always had a driver.
That means too intense. At some point, the wind was too strong; they could still take off with their kites, but you couldn't with a paraglider anymore. You had already flown down and could then collect them all again. Exactly, that was my job. But you were the only paraglider pilot?
I was the only paraglider, exactly.
But that's how friendships form between paragliders and hang gliders. Absolutely. Where you can benefit from each other accordingly. I heard once that you also flew during the midnight sun. Is that true?
Barely, exactly. I was once in Norway, in Vågamo, so in a situation like that. I did Interrail with my backpack in the back and the paraglider in the front, and I traveled through Norway by train, then to a campsite where some pilots were. That was the place Vågamo, where there's a well-known flight area near the highest peak of Kalthöpiken in Norway. There, there's this phenomenon where in the evening—so when you almost have the midnight sun—at 10 p.m. there's a convergence in the middle of the valley.
That means the wind flows down from both sides of the valley, or rather, the air flows down, builds up in the middle, and then you can—I think it was 10 or 11 p.m.—you can still climb up.
and it was still light, it was quiet, it was super pleasant and an incredible feeling. Unimaginable in Switzerland.
Those are all stories from your youth of flying. Are there any other remarkable or adventurous stories where you'd say you only experienced them recently or lately? What was your last adventure?
I only recently did my first night flights. That's also a specialty; it's only allowed in Switzerland under very specific conditions. You have to submit a flight plan, you have to register it, you have to have lighting on the glider, you have to have a
attach a lighting device below your seat, and if there's a full moon, that's practiced occasionally, and I was allowed to go along with a group who then equipped me with the gear and we flew from the Rigi. Especially the landing was a bit demanding because it was in a very dark, shaded area.
The landing was a bit challenging, but apart from a small bump on the butt, it went quite well. So that's typical of the kind of thing we do, and last year I also did my first bivouac attempts. Two days with a tent and a light glider, and there are so many different possibilities. In my case, it wasn't super successful because where we were shaded, it was very broadly shaded, and the great achievement for my colleague and me was that we got back up to the launch site at all, landed up there, and then set up the tent.
and the next day there was a small cross-country flight. But what we actually wanted to do wasn't possible.
Yeah, but as a micro-adventure, it's the experience that counts, not the distance in the end. What does flying still give you today?
So generally, flying is a very, very multi-layered experience for me. When I do hike and fly, I enjoy the physical activity. I'm relatively athletic. I like moving. I also like setting myself a goal, like hiking up. Then having the possibility to just let go and enjoy the moment when your feet leave the ground. That is an incredibly uplifting feeling for me. Then seeing the landscape from above and you are extremely in the here and now. You're focused on what you're doing right now. Left and right don't matter anymore. And those are such very, very liberating moments for me.
And that's a bit of a way to switch off from the daily grind at work, which can sometimes involve long hours for me. And accordingly, this feeling of letting go—I can experience that with other sports too, but with flying it's especially intense because of this...
...long-range perspective comes into play. And I find that to be something extremely beautiful and liberating.
How has your perspective on flying changed since you became SAV president?
Well, okay, I've been a bit biased. I had a very limited perspective. I wasn't aware of everything the association does behind the scenes to make this possible. I wasn't aware...
how I described these strong characters at the beginning, how they can shape a scene and sometimes even tear it apart. I wasn't aware of all the safety aspects happening in the background, of the regulations being introduced. During my time as president, we have tightened the training topics, or rather the exam topics. I wasn't aware of the actual number of accidents in total. That is something we've already covered in the association magazine, but when you're confronted with it more directly—and I've actually sworn to myself that in my...
During my time as president, I've never had to go to a funeral. Last year, I did go when one of our board members died in a crash—literally. Having to talk to the widow, offering her support—those were all topics that were relatively new to me, as was the wide range of everything that happens around it, including on the political level. I'm a member of the Parliamentary Working Group on Aviation and Space. It's very interesting to get together with other people there, even if the topics now have relatively little connection to my actual field. Then, the aviation panorama in my head has expanded tremendously.
Last question: if you had one wish as president that as many pilots in Switzerland as possible could grant you, what would it be?
Enjoy flying, enjoy the freedom we have, and do everything you can to ensure we can continue to have it in the future by following the rules and being kind to one another.
I'll just leave that as it is. Enjoy the flying, be nice to each other, and follow the rules. Urs, thank you so much for your story about your work as president of the SAV, celebrating 50 years of the SAV, your own motivation, and some interesting adventures you've already experienced with flying. Thank you for that, and have fun—or rather, great success—with your big festival from late August to early September in Switzerland. Thanks, Lucian. The
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