Everyone should really let out this enthusiasm for flying—that kid, when you're flying, just screaming in the air, you're all alone there, you can completely feel this enthusiasm, as well as the tension, and what it's like, so that everyone understands even better that you can still feel and show this enthusiasm and joy while flying, despite having that awe and conscientiousness of an adult, an adult pilot.
Lu-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the cosmos of paragliding.
Today with Stefan Stöger and I am Lucian Haas.
There are hundreds of thousands of paragliding videos on YouTube or Instagram. Most of them are filmed casually with some action camera on a helmet, as simple as uninspired documentaries of one's own flight. A kind of dashcam on the head. The images invite you to fly along, but you quickly get lost in the banality. In between, however, the algorithms of social networks do manage to push one or another gem onto the screen. Shorts, Stories, Reels, or even longer films where the creators didn't just hold the camera up, but actually put some thought into the composition of the story and their visual language. These films evoke feelings, air movements become tangible, there's a captivating rustling in the ears, and suddenly longing grows and the moment tastes like freedom.
That is the magic of cinematography. One person who masters this craft—and also an art form—is the young Austrian Stefan Stöger. The 30-year-old has been teaching himself filmmaking since his youth. For several years now, he has been making a living from filmmaking. He prefers to showcase paragliding, using his own unique, artistic aesthetic. However, Stefan Stöger has received the most attention so far for a rather simple video. It shows how he crashed uncontrollably into a stationary chairlift, and how Stefan hopes this will contribute to a more open culture of error in the paragliding scene. That is also what this 154th episode of Podz-Glidz is about.
Since you're listening to the podcast, why not become a supporter of Podz-Glidz? It explains how to do that very easily on the Lu-Glidz Gleitschirm-Blog, specifically on the "Fördern" page.
Stefan, what do you understand by cinematography?
I always pronounce it in English. That's cinematography, and it's an art form of capturing, showing, and staging things. And in every art form, there's... a lot of personal stuff in there, and that
fascinates me. How does cinematography differ from all those, let's just say, GoPro helmet camera videos you find everywhere on Insta and YouTube? What is the essence of it, where would you say, "That's just some random film," and "This is cinematography"?
With cinematography, you simply think about every aspect—what the viewer sees, hears, and feels when they watch something. As a director or creator, you want to consider all the aspects that affect the viewer: what you want to show, what you don't want to show, and how much you want to stage it. Yes, you can bring a lot of yourself into how you... place something into the scene.
Staging, that always sounds like there's probably a lot of planning involved. When you make your films now, especially the paraglider films you make, how much planning is actually involved? Because I believe that while in flight, you can't plan everything, a lot of things just happen. So how can you still make something cinematographic out of a medium through which you are moving—like the air, which might push you somewhere or something else, so not everything is predictable—how can you... how can you still make something cinematographic out of that? I mean, that
The whole thing is a journey for me. And I have to tell you how it all started for me. I used to have a trampoline in my garden and I would jump on it. As a kid...
it was still like, a typical backyard trampoline, like a round thing with a safety net around it, something like that.
Exactly. And that's when I started learning backflips, stunts, and so on, on the trampoline. Eventually, I felt the urge to film it too, and then to share it on YouTube. That's how the whole thing started, alongside the fact that, yeah, it's also called Parkour and Freerunning. Parkour is the fastest way from A to B, and Freerunning is more about incorporating backflips, stunts, twists, and other creative elements. And yeah, I was out and about a lot. I already started thinking about when to film, for example, at sunset.
And then the scenes are just amazing. And I had friends, or found people, who shared this passion. And that's how, looking back, something really great was created—really great videos that became more and more professional because of it. And that's what I felt. A real lifestyle started to form around it.
And for me, that's the journey from simply doing something because I think it's cool and I want to share it, to living it out more and more, developing myself, and transforming it into what people know as cinematography, into cinema quality, into real films. And when you go, yeah, when you go on a trip or I go on an adventure, everything is uncertain. You can't take much equipment if it gets too difficult or too heavy. Nevertheless, you want—or I want—to present something at a very high level, to capture it.
It's kind of an interesting trajectory for me, that I'm making what I do more and more professional and bringing more and more of this artistry into it.
You just said parkour and freerunning. I can still imagine that you basically write a script for that. Like, who jumps over what, which trick is shown, from what perspective I want to film it, and so on. So you can still plan that a lot, because you basically know all the locations and all the jump spots and stuff, and you can repeat them ten times if necessary or just for the sake of it. You can say, "Now the light was right and the jump was perfect" or something, and then you can make a great film out of it. Now, with paragliding, it's something where you say the moment can't actually be repeated, because the thermals were there in one spot and ten minutes later, if you say, "Okay, now film it again," they might not be there and you can't do it like that again, and stuff like that.
You have to be much more spontaneous with these films. Is it still cinematography if you don't—if you don't really want to—if it's still cinematography if you can't really plan it all out that way?
That's the big challenge, that's true. But I still have to say that in the past, none of that was planned either, and a lot of great stuff was created because I was simply part of a community, a group of friends, where everyone had that eye, where everyone brought their own art into it and not much was planned. People, with paragliding, that's immensely difficult. As I said, in the air you're also kind of alone, you don't fly together, you don't stand there or can't really position yourself and say, "Okay, now I'm standing in the spot, now you can fly past or now you can take off."
What also fascinates me is that, yeah, I find it's not very advanced yet. For example, with surfing or something, there are an immense number of films, there are so many ways to stage surfing beautifully. You have the water, which has so much character, it can splash on the lens, and that's the element—it's very tangible for people. But in the air, there's the air, and the air isn't visible, and that's also... that's something, or not directly visible, yeah, that's the thing.
And yeah, what fascinates me is that they really haven't made much progress yet in the paragliding scene, in the flight scene, in making truly cinematic results and short films, because it's also so difficult. I want to put my fascination into it as a task, as a filmmaker—I've been doing this professionally for three years now—to maybe make it visible, and it's also a dream to actually make a short film, a paraglider short film, that might maybe be awarded somewhere at festivals.
There's one example, a film of yours that I find to be the best example under the term cinematographic representation, which is Golden Geistberg. That's a film where, you didn't fly yourself, but I believe you really just stood on the ground and filmed how others fly into a sunset, or fly in the sunset with a very special lighting mood, moving between light and shadow and stuff like that. So it's a great film, I can only recommend everyone watch it, I'll also link it accordingly in the shownotes. But something like that, for example, you can't plan. I mean, the lighting mood that's there and this play of clouds that happened—with the dark clouds and the golden sun underneath, and the gliders rising into the darkness and coming back down from the darkness and stuff like that.
How do you develop something like that in the moment?
The first thing was noticing how incredibly the mood was right then. I mean, this sunset, the fog down below, it was a long view, but something very special. And then there was also the fact that it really started to snow. I had to decide—I knew I had the camera with me—that I wouldn't go flying, but that it was so special, that it was more special for me to capture it and be able to watch it later and feel it all over again. That's really what flashed through my mind for a moment, that urge to capture it.
It's so extreme for me. And I want to show people how I perceive flying. I'm so fascinated by it, by flying, by this element of air that you don't really see everywhere, but you can feel it when you deploy a glider, when you're handling on the ground and it pulls a bit on the harness. You notice it on the left, on the right, you can... I perceive so much, and because of how I perceive it, I also have this urge to show people how colorful or intense I experience it, because for me, it's really an explosion when the sunset is there and the people are soaring, it's insane.
And yeah, you just have to have the skills, be on your game, have the right equipment, and then it's kind of a flow state when I'm filming. I'm not thinking much about the settings; everything just comes together.
In the description for this YouTube video, Gordon Geisberg, you wrote—and you've already hinted at this—that you wanted to capture the impressions you would have experienced in the air in a way that... does justice to my perception. What is your perception of flying, actually? How do you experience it?
I think I have to take a bit of a detour to explain my perception of flying and tell you a bit about myself. In recent years, I've become more and more aware of myself and have learned to understand myself better. And one thing that came out of that is that I see myself as a highly sensitive person, or that it's present for me. High sensitivity means that I feel I perceive things that affect me very intensely—whether it's acoustic, some kind of light, all sorts of things that simply act upon the body.
And that is very often overwhelming for me, so I also need a lot of peace to process it. But I've learned that; it used to be harder because I didn't understand it, and a lot has developed from that—that it's a gift. And that I understand this gift, when I understand myself, and why I have this urge to give back to people how I see it, as I often feel they don't see it quite as intensely, they don't perceive it quite as much, they might not even be able to live it out that way.
Because when I fly, it puts a smile on my face; you're alone up there, you look down, and you can sort of master it too. So this awe is absolute. It's absolutely there, flying has its dangers, but you can master it and all of that is what fascinates me very, very much and what I also believe is just very intense. And you don't know it, but maybe you can perceive it more intensely in this life than others, perhaps even.
Are you a synesthete? Like someone who has different senses in their head? In a way, do you mix them, like having a certain taste for sounds or colors having a meaning other than just the color?
The term is new to me, I find it interesting. I haven't really thought about it yet. How would you, how could you explain that to me in more detail?
So, I had a friend, an artist—she's unfortunately passed away now—who was a synesthete. And she... she saw a lot of things, like she saw numbers as colors and colors as numbers, or she'd drink a coffee and say it tasted green. Or something else tasted blue to her, or something like that. So, the different senses sort of mix in her head, and because of that, she also had a different way of painting, because for her, painting—where someone might just look at it and only see colors—was associated with much more sensation.
Yes, I find that interesting. Very interesting.
And the way you're describing it, it almost sounds like you might be perceiving certain things you see in an additional way, so to speak.
I can definitely do something with that. So, one would look at that and maybe it really is also
enrichment, to better understand some of the things you perceive. So it definitely sounds... Yeah, I already have a few memories. It's just as true as you described.
If you're talking about this high sensitivity, which also means sometimes you need more peace and quiet to process things. Well, when you're flying, an incredible amount of impressions come at you. If you're also filming while flying, I can imagine even more impressions coming in, because you have the external ones, then you might look at your small screen from the camera, see an image again, maybe you already have an idea of what that part of the film could look like, or whatever.
To what extent is it sometimes the case that you'd say you actually get lost in it?
Yeah, getting lost in it actually sounds good, but it's true. It's a real overload then. Especially when I think about it, I film Roland's battery stunts quite often.
So, Roland Brunnbauer, just so we know who we're talking about. I already had a podcast episode with him, I think it was number 138. He flew off the Ferris wheel in the Wiener Prater. And you captured that as a film, too. So the whole thing, the film that exists about it, that's right, that also comes from you. So, tell me more.
Yeah, we're always, or really often, practicing, let's say, for filming. And that's also training for me. Roland, he's there, he's the stunt pilot. I'm not really a stunt pilot, but I see myself as this paragliding filmmaker. And that's my training, or our joint training.
And we're already connected via radio. We also plan things like how far ahead we fly, how far out over the lake. And I see it, or I have to calculate it, when he's actually doing his maneuvers or losing a lot of altitude, where he'll be at that specific moment when I want to have him right behind the Schafberg in the background. And I might have to lose some altitude beforehand. In that short amount of time, it's really, extremely a lot. But what always fascinates me, or what's part of my life, is also testing those extremes.
When you're flying behind Roland, so to speak, to film him, how did you imagine that? Do you just have a GoPro on your head and say, I'll always point it towards Roland so it's in the shot? Or are you actually flying behind him while holding a large camera in your hand, where you still have to aim precisely and adjust everything accordingly to capture it? Which is, of course, an additional difficulty—you have to fly and steer, you don't have a fixed vantage point, but a flying vantage point in the air that's constantly changing, and you still have to somehow follow the other person. So, how did I imagine that?
So we've tried quite a few things too. It turned out that the iPhone is very well suited, with the stabilization and the different lenses, which include optical lenses. It's just how quickly you can... well, you still have to focus on where you are yourself. Sometimes I even lose altitude while filming, etc. And the iPhone turned out to be very good for that. Of course, we've also, let's say, perfected it. We don't—or I don't—record in normal mode; instead, we record to a hard drive in a raw format, in ProRes, to have better dynamic range and to really push it to the limit.
We also already tried building a microphone into the glider to make it more intimate, since the glider is everywhere in the Infinity Tumbling.
And what's interesting is how I got into flying. Because I was in Lanzarote and I shot a short film there about a friend of mine, Stefanie Millinger. She's a contortionist, so a "snake woman." She can bend herself like that. And she wanted—I mean, she's also a, what do you call it, adrenaline junkie.
And she wanted to be lowered down by a park ranger, like a tandem, to be rappelled down and then do a stunt dance there, and the whole thing unsecured over
at the cliff. So, like hanging from a sort of trapeze under the tandem and then doing trapeze art, so to speak. Yeah,
but it's really, absolutely unsecured. And I filmed that there, and that was the first time I went up in a tandem with someone, and I had my big camera with the gimbal and everything with me. And that's what I like so much about it. And that's when I first came into contact with parkleiding, and I was able to film with a big camera. Yeah, I'd love to do it like that now, if you just do the training with the Roland. But that really only works if you have someone in a tandem, so you can focus on the camera, the settings, and the steering in the front. And if there are two of us there on the 12th.
for example, if we're flying earlier, we don't have someone who doesn't fly tandem, but it has to be done quickly, and that's why the iPhone is great.
But for every use case and for every place where the video ends up—maybe it's just a social clip—there's the corresponding perfect option.
When you're filming with the iPhone, do you have a special grip for that too, so you can hold it better in the air and keep it from flying out of your hands? Or how do you do that?
I have a log system, yeah, the Re-Log system, which isn't well-known, where the phone is definitely already secured. And I often lean on the riser with one hand and use the other to make sure I have the brake lines. Or if it's very calm and I just really have to fly straight, I also let go of the control lines sometimes and focus completely on the filming. So the most important thing is to be stable, to get a stable shot.
Well, I've seen some of your films, also on Insta, where there are many little clips where you're actually filming yourself from dynamic flight movements and, for example, flying behind another pilot, keeping them in the... frame the whole time, but still flying your curves to be able to follow them and stuff like that. How do you do that? Do you fly that just with weight? Do you fly with the control lines in one hand and pull accordingly, or how do you do that?
I usually do it by steering with one hand, and of course, weight shift is very important. Communication with the pilot in front is key, and I also usually have a smaller glider for things like that, namely the P316, which is a bit more dynamic but still safe. And then it actually works out quite well.
And has it never happened that you've experienced a dangerous situation there? Like, you realized, okay, filming and flying—at some point, is it maybe just too much attention on two different things?
No, I haven't had any problems with that yet. It's usually just... that I do it very consciously. So, we really say, we're filming now. With the pilots, the risk is also completely conscious, and there are usually no other people in the airspace. So, all the other risks are eliminated, like somehow flying into someone else, etc. Yeah, it's really about perfection somehow. I can't do that with everyone... I mean, I'm not going to tail someone or something. It really only works with people who are actually...
I train for the filming. That's actually how you have to put it.
You're training the filming. So, even when flying, you're training on how to bring both together. Yeah. Are there some specific tricks you have to know for that? Yeah, many specific tricks. So, that's really,
I think this whole interaction—being a good pilot, knowing your camera well, knowing your colleagues, knowing the area, knowing your glider. All those things. Also, how you frame it, like how you position it, which focal length you use, a lot comes together there. Yes. Whether that works and whether it then looks good... I
I noticed you when I saw a film. I saw the film where you, Roland, filmed the flight from the Ferris wheel. And then I became aware of you through that and saw some other films. And then there's one where you show how you flew into a cable car. So, something where you'd say, okay, maybe controlling and filming didn't come together that well. What was going on there?
Yeah, I didn't film that clip myself. That's a chase cam. That means a GoPro is hooked up with two lines in the gallery. And it flies behind. It's like a tennis ball. Some people know that. And it was there that day, on this... It was shortly before New Year's Eve. I think it was the 30th, or the 1st, the 31st. That was just a spontaneous ski-and-fly with my colleague. Filming wasn't the main focus that day, it was really this...
It wasn't like usual, where you'd say, we're filming this on purpose. We're deliberately doing some maneuver. We're trying something out. It was just this thing I got into, the whole thing. Where I went in and didn't handle it consciously. That's why it happened. Filming is always involved somehow. In that case, it was just unconscious or not that conscious. And the chase cam got a very spectacular shot of me getting stuck in that chairlift. And the video went pretty viral, too.
The chairlift was stationary. So... the lift system was out of service. You just walked right into it. How luckily did that turn out?
Very luckily. Aside from the damage to the glider, nothing happened at all. I was back down within five minutes because the lines were several meters long. The chairlift has been out of operation for years. Otherwise, we wouldn't have even gotten anywhere near it. Or rather... one shouldn't get anywhere near any such situation. I was hanging relatively far above the ground then. And yes, the lines on the left were severed. They were jammed at the top. And because of that friction, I flew down on one side.
So I was just hanging on one side of the lines. And I got scared. Because I'd also gotten my skis caught in the snow. I was afraid that if the other side snapped too, I'd somehow fall onto the skis. That was... I mean, I wasn't afraid of the height or anything like that. But I was afraid of lying on the skis somewhere and cutting myself, etc. I still remember that. But yeah, the right side held. And then people came right away who could actually get me down from that height with their... yeah, with their hands. And we were able to recover the glider the next day.
And I was also able to have it repaired. And with such a line set.
So from that perspective, I really... I came out of it very, very well.
My lesson, as to why this happened, I needed a long time to process. I didn't post this clip right away either. That was over a year later. I just wasn't ready yet. And it was also a conscious decision to post it then.
As a lesson for others, right?
Absolutely. So, especially this policy of making mistakes is extremely important.
Extremely, extremely important. Also for paragliding, in my opinion. I didn't... I felt guilty about it for a long time. I... it braked me. It... it didn't feel good, this mistake I made. Throughout that whole year, it kept haunting me. And it asked me, why should I feel this way now? Why should I... why should that brake me like that? Why should I... I mean, I wasn't afraid of flying. I... I... I flew again immediately. But it was an internal, a dampened feeling.
And that's certainly also from my upbringing, from my youth. Let's just say, how you deal with mistakes, from school. Yeah, I couldn't just leave it like that. Because I knew I also have these... in my opinion, life always gives you... these tasks. Something happened and that... that reflects exactly your or my personal task behind it. And I had already processed that somehow. That was the thing, that I really went into that thing unconsciously. That I was driven... That was always this difficult time around the New Year's transition after the holidays, where it was a bit of a drag with the family, in my life, let's say.
Because I'm on the mountains so much. Family is something very, very important, don't get me wrong. But I just wasn't that stretched thin. And then I really started looking for that adventure, that extreme stuff again. And then I just fly, just fly, ski and fly.
And we flew twice that day. And it wasn't enough, and all that. It was this restless feeling and I didn't realize it right away... But I processed it relatively quickly and knew that this is my job. But I still felt bad
felt. You said earlier that you felt guilty. Towards whom?
No person, no thing, but rather something personal or something within me. You've become disloyal to yourself, in a way? I think that's a topic coming up. From the past. So, having made that one mistake and not having understood it. That was the thing. So, you could say a trauma has sort of resurfaced. And I wanted to change that. So that it's not just hanging there, not so in... Yes, that I can somehow make a difference by how I handle it now.
I got your message. I received this video from someone who saw it. I don't know him personally. And he gave me a really interesting insight, that he thinks it's very cool how I'm dealing with it. And he also... he's a pilot of small aircraft in a club himself. And he told me how they handle it there, this error policy. And specifically... specifically, every error or near-miss is written down. And they then really sit down together, I don't know, once a month or per quarter. And they go through every specific error, who made it—so that's also addressed.
But you feel very... everyone in that group sees it as something you can learn from. Everyone knows that it could have happened to anyone, and that if you talk about why it happened, then you understand it too. And it's not like, hey, you were stupid or it's somehow... your own fault or... That's all... That doesn't get you anywhere, nor does it help anyone else. I was really inspired by the fact that the whole club, the whole community, stands by a really stupid mistake. And that you just really show it like that, that it can happen to anyone. And then... the only thing you can do yourself is say,
Yeah, what do I take away from it? And I also tried to do that with... I made a second video about this crash. And where I wanted to address more and more why it happened, how I deal with my mistakes. Yeah, that's the background, as I see it.
You said that with the community—meaning the pilots of the planes—they meet up in the community. Did you also process this with others, or was it for you a matter of, I make my video, I put it out publicly, that's my community now, and then I see how I deal with it? Or did you also talk about it with other people and try to analyze what happened there before you even released the film?
Of course, I talked about it with my friends too, and I spoke with them about it. And I was able to take a lot away from that, or also had that feeling I described when you talk about it. And that this mistake just feels completely different when you talk about it.
But yeah, through that video, I think 2.4 million people have really seen it now. I've been doing stuff on social media for a while, sharing my things for a while. I've never experienced a response like this before. And it's also been very, very interesting for me. Of course, there were a lot of people who said, "Yeah, that's stupid" or "Why are you flying like that?" and those who didn't understand it. So, the negative comments really took off. But for me, it was very interesting that it polarizes people. People want to see it.
The clips have actually been viewed 2.4 million times. And on average, everyone watched until the very end, even for a second longer. So that's really interesting. It means people are interested, it's polarizing them, it's doing something to them. It means I, or this video, is moving something inside people. And something comes up. Because then they want to write it or share it. And whatever comes up for them and ends up in the comments, I don't see that as being about me, but it's coming from them. And I find that—that's how I see it too—a great thing, that I'm moving people and something is coming up for them.
And I also think that if someone can't handle it well or believes that the whole sport is being undermined or taken away because you show something like that, they have internal issues that are actually being triggered there. And that gives people the chance to deal with that. That's why I think it's good. And I've made that pact with myself. I haven't spoken to people or anything like that. That happens inside me.
Which clip actually went so viral? The one where you just show... how you land in the lines, I mean, land in the lift, or the one where you're more analytical and also explain a bit more about why that situation happened?
So both clips went incredibly viral. But the one where only that short fail is included, that one just went through the roof. And I have to say that I...
Of course, I also know how to make videos interesting. I'm also, let's just say, predisposed to it. I'm with Red Bull too, for example, as a social media editor on a freelance basis. And that's where I do exactly those kinds of edits where really...
...emotions are evoked.
Yeah, and where it's edited and staged in a way that gets it into the algorithm, I'd say. That... I didn't do that consciously, that I did the video... I just knew that, primarily, people are only interested in this one thing. And then, for the people who want to watch more or want to know more about what's going on in the background, I'll make a video a day or two later where I talk more about it.
What did you learn from this whole... incident, not from the video story, but from the incident itself? What do you do differently now?
So, what I do differently is that I'm much more conscious of it now. When you're flying, you're in the air, you're leaving the ground. And I have to be aware beforehand that I want to get back on the ground one hundred percent.
If I don't, then I'm in heaven.
And that sounds very...
Yes, very banal or very... But it's just so simple. And I don't think most people think about it during every flight. So everyone says, yeah, sure you have to... I'm flying to the landing field, that's obvious. But to consciously perceive that you're actually taking off now, that you're in the air, in that element, and to be conscious beforehand of where I want to land, where's plan B and plan C. That's the basic essence. The basic essence is that I'm making sure to fly more consciously again. In every situation. So I'm already a very conscious pilot,
but in every situation.
I have a very nice image from Eki Maute, who said this during an SIV training. Guys, you have to know, when you go flying, you're not going to a cinema where you can say, after ten minutes of a horror movie, no, that's too much for me, I'm just going back out. Instead, when you're in the air, you might also be in a horror movie that you can't get out of at that moment, until you're standing down on the ground. So you have to, when you fly, you have to fly the flight to the end. And if you haven't thought through beforehand what you're getting into, you also have to live with it, with what you didn't think through. And in the case of your flight, as you see it, you didn't think your flight through enough to consider, oh, the cable car is coming from somewhere.
With this aviation sport, I'm becoming aware, or I am aware, that it takes a bit of time to repeatedly regain this awareness, or life, or I don't know, there will always be incidents that bring you back into your awareness. And that's important, or it's part of it. And that's exactly what happened to me with this cable car, for example. And if I hadn't interpreted what it means for me now, why it happened, in my opinion, then I could imagine it happening to me again, where more happens to me—maybe even something physical—so that I become aware of this task, as I already said.
And I believe that even though things will happen to me again in the future and there will be precarious situations, I'm aware of that. But I don't want to push it to that point or anything like that. And I can do that; I always take a much more conscious look at it anyway. And also, in a way, that you internalize it.
In this film, and also in many others of yours over the winter, you can see that you fly without gloves. Why?
Do you need that for filming? Do your fingers have to be free?
Yeah, well, I've filmed at minus six, minus seven degrees wearing gloves. And for example, I just couldn't manage the handling properly. I felt uncomfortable or restricted, especially when I'm standing up on the mountain or when I'm flying and it's something so unique, and I can't move completely freely or I feel restricted, then I'm willing to accept that my fingers might freeze a bit.
How often did your fingers actually get somewhat frozen?
All the time, but since you mention it, I'm just thinking of a very specific situation where I flew once in the winter. It was some winter thermals, so that was something quite special. It had been rather dark and cloudy for a whole day, and then a window opened up. The sun shone completely onto the slope. That means the slope was extremely cold before, so to speak, and then it was like a hot plate and it just went up and kept going up. But this wasn't the one I mentioned, the flight I filmed, no, this was just a normal one—actually, it would have been a glide from a hike and fly—and then it just kept going up, and I really started having problems there,
because my fingers were so frozen and I tried to spiral down, but I couldn't. I really couldn't hold the brake lever anymore. So, normally you'd think, yeah, it's just frozen and then it stays like that and you don't feel it anymore, but there was also no movement left at all. Yeah, that was interesting, that was very interesting. It's also one of those incidents, like I said at first, that will keep happening, where you get tasks like that and how you deal with them, and stuff like that.
But were you so hyped up with excitement that you didn't notice? Because you said it was going so wonderfully here, that you were sort of flashed by it and didn't realize at all how your hands were freezing?
No, I actually just wanted to go down. I have to say, that was more in the early stages when I was still more of a beginner. I mean, I'm not a pro now, absolutely not, but back then, when I was still starting out, that's what happened. No, I didn't want to go up, I wanted to go down.
But if you're saying that one slope was basically on fire, couldn't you have just flown straight out into the valley and then gone down from there?
Exactly, absolutely. That was, so to speak, my job back then, to develop further or whatever, yeah, very clearly.
You didn't know, in a way. Yeah. So, to say it's beginner's luck, or rather beginner's ignorance, it's going up everywhere now and I actually don't know what to do anymore.
I definitely had the knowledge, yes. I clearly had the knowledge, even in hindsight. But what I couldn't handle about the situation is that something is happening now that I didn't account for, and I'm now overwhelmed.
This stress situation, losing control—I couldn't handle that. And that's why I couldn't act rationally anymore. And that's what I took away from that experience, or what I carried with me.
If you take this example—you flying into the cable car, which was also a moment of being overwhelmed because, as you tell it yourself in the film, at a certain point you actually stopped reacting. You were just perceiving a lot from the outside, there was a dog running around and other things, and you weren't actually doing anything anymore, not even trying to steer away from it or anything. Does that feeling of being overwhelmed in that moment make you afraid of other flights in any way? Or do you say, no, you can learn how to deal with that?
You can learn that. And I also think it's increasingly only learned by experiencing those kinds of situations and then mastering them. That's why I also say it will happen to me again—I mean, I won't be flying into the cable car again, but it will happen again that you end up in a situation you didn't account for, etc. And because you've experienced it before, you learn from the past to handle it better in the moment. I also think that if you go running, you can do that almost every day, or maybe running is a bad example, but in paragliding, you actually do—or can do—it not so extremely often, and especially not that often,
because the situation, like it was there in winter, where a window opens and it blasts up or something like that, that's something very specific. There are so many scenarios where you can learn or that can happen to you while flying. And yeah,
I think that's just going to happen from time to time.
Do you fly because of that too? I mean, to get that unpredictable challenge?
No. What are you looking for when you fly then?
When I'm flying, I'm really filled with a sense of contentment, just being in the air, just being there, and it's very interesting, for example, I just need ground health, that makes me so happy, learning to control and master this glider and to keep perfecting it, and playing with or engaging with this element of air. And I see many other pilots who want to take off as quickly as possible and also have this tension from flying, from the takeoff, from what's expected of them. I see that. Even with the people who get overwhelmed by it.
Especially at the launch site, I think I've developed very, very far, because I can interpret this tension better for myself now. I mean, I know it can be dangerous, I know it involves risks, but I make sure to control this tension even better or deal with it better, and also not let it master me. And then I have so much, so much fun handling ground and turning the glider.
On the ground, does that mean you feel at one with your wing?
It makes no difference whether it's on the ground or in the air, if that's what you want. So, I also feel connected to my glider in the air.
Yeah, but I mean, this training and what you're saying, the fun I have with it, is simply this attempt to become one with the wing, whether it's in the air or on the ground, it doesn't really matter.
One with the wing, yes, but I think even more this element of air. When I feel the air behind me, so that the wind is perfect for handling the ground, for the glider that's automatically above me, I can already feel that in the back of my neck. So that fascinates me, it's like, sure, the glider too. Mastering it and being one with it, absolutely, if you do a winger up there and then something like a satt,
that's gigantic, but it's also about this element of air.
And air, the element of air, is transparent; you can't see it. As a filmmaker, is that maybe something where you say, okay, how can I translate these feelings I have for the element of air into images? What are you looking for then? I mean, what kind of images are ones where you say, this is the best way to convey air?
Yes, also, for example, when I make a video, that you see the grass at the launch site blowing in the air, that you film that, that I think also in this Geistberg—so Sunset, in the Golden Geistberg video you mentioned earlier, it's like that too, I film that rustling of the glider when it feels the wind, that's everything the air does and how it becomes visible. And what, I think, yes, I'm very aware of that and it makes the whole thing very relatable, I think. It's a big challenge while filming directly,
but I'm going to keep developing myself even more, yeah, and also with drones and FPV drones, filming and making it visible, yeah, a bit above the fog or a thermal, how it rises.
Where do you see yourself going from here? I mean, what do you have in mind as dream projects, either in terms of flying or maybe from a filmmaking perspective?
So I definitely want to make a paragliding film, a real short film at a higher level, and I know I'll need a team for that, I can't do it alone anymore, but I'm going to enjoy the journey there above all, meeting people who are just as passionate about filming it, and I have to say, I need some kind of community and a flying friendship—yeah, like back in the day with parkour and freerunning, where what was also just really important, why such great films came out, was because I was out there with them and we filmed each other, and you just kind of need that.
I realize that filming a paragliding project alone, I'm just using a GoPro or a 360 cam where I film myself, but this mutual filming and exchanging is all an interesting journey that I'm looking forward to over the next few years. And when the film eventually happens, it'll be a great achievement, but I'm going to really enjoy this journey, and a lot is already happening—with my YouTube channel, with my Instagram, where the community is constantly growing and moving more and more in that direction. And I'm also extremely happy to have landed here on your podcast, and yeah, maybe people will reach out to me, so I'd love to meet those who are also passionate about filming it.
Being in the mountains, being in nature. I want to—and this has only recently become more and more of a desire of mine—I want to become a better alpinist or really get into alpinism, planning high-altitude tours, doing the three-thousand-meter peaks, maybe flying down with the paraglider from Austria, filming that, and inspiring other people, connecting with other people and showing how I perceive it, what my story is in my life, and that's exactly where setbacks like this fall, like that crash, and yeah.
Stefan, I believe you will definitely find your way there. Your films already radiate a wonderful aesthetic that portrays paragliding in a special way. I think you will certainly be able to inspire even more people with that. And when the big film finally comes, I'm already looking forward to seeing it. And for now, thanks for the insights into your cinematographic and other thoughts as a pilot. I think some people can take something very beautiful away from that. Thank you for that.
I also want to say thank you. Thanks for the invitation. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts. I'd just like to leave the audience with one small thing. Everyone should really let that enthusiasm for flying out again. Like that kid, when you're flying, just scream in the air—you're alone, and you can completely feel that enthusiasm. Also, that tension, what it's like, so that everyone understands better that you can still feel and show that awe and conscientiousness of an adult, an adult pilot, but also that enthusiasm and joy when flying.
And that's the beauty of it.
Very well said. Thanks, Stefan.
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