You just have to consider how much protection a mountain provides. If you have a flat mountain, it just gets washed over and you won't find anything on the lee side. But if you're further inside the high mountains with something really steep and you fly deep into the back, you're usually just flying through the lee, but as you go higher, it actually returns to where the wind is sheltered. Where there's less lee, it usually starts rising again.
Podz-Glidz, the RuGlides podcast.
Stories from the universe of paragliding.
Today with Christian Schuck and I'm Lucian Haas. At the Red Bull X-Alps this summer 2025, around half of the field consists of so-called rookies. These are athletes participating for the first time in this toughest hike-and-fly race across the Alpine arc. How will they perform? Is there perhaps someone among them who can give the top favorites like Gregel Maurer, Maxime Pinot, or Simon Oberrauner a run for their money? One name you should definitely have on your glider is Christian Schuck. At the latest since his second place last year at the Pyrenees counterpart of the X-Alps, the X-Pure, and a third place at Borns to Fly, the 27-year-old from Allgäu has evolved into a kind of elite rookie.
Especially since he's already shown that he's not just strong on foot, but also capable of some badass magic moves. And he can do cross-country flying too. In 2023, he pulled off the feat of flying an FAI triangle of over 300 kilometers from the Nebelhorn twice within three days. At over 30 km/h each as a nid on demanding, high-load routes including two Alpine main ridge crossings and without any typical race-course valleys. How does someone like that think, fly, plan, and train? In this episode 159 of Podz-Glidz, Christian Schuck gives us a glimpse into his flying world.
Since you're listening to the podcast, why not become a supporter of Podz-Glidz? It's explained very simply on the Lu-Glidz Gleitschirm-Blog, specifically on the "Fördern" page.
Christian, it's Good Friday, and it's just after nine. Have you already trained this morning? No.
Do you ever work out in the morning otherwise? I mean, today is a holiday, but usually in the morning before work or something?
Yeah, quite often. I mean, it works out well. I'm an early riser anyway, I'm a morning person. And then you do a bit of something. And above all, it's often like, I think many people know that feeling when you've just done a fresh workout or something, then you start the day much more relaxed. And no matter what comes, you feel somehow prepared for everything that's coming and manage everything you set out to do. And if you haven't done anything in the morning and then get stuck at work for longer,
then it can sometimes be difficult to pull yourself away and do something else. That's why, if you've already done something in the morning, it's always a good start to the day.
Does training mean running up the mountain and flying down for you?
Yes, that's the best there is. But especially for myself, I think it's important to also do a lot of flat running and stuff like that. And especially now, when I do something in the morning right in front of my door, it's not many elevation meters; it's only 200 to get to the top or 400 from the top all the way down. And then I just go for, let's say, often another ten kilometers of jogging or something. And it's easier, takes less time, and is still always nice because, as they say, home is where the heart is.
How much does the X-Alps training determine your life right now?
Yes, it's definitely a big part of it. But in the end, I'm still working, so so far, everything's normal. I'll be doing it a bit less starting May 1st.
It takes up a lot of time, actually even more than I expected it to. Sure, some things are cool, and it's really cool when you're a bit involved in the scene and can contribute a little, have some influence, and give some input. But, like, my free time revolves around that quite a bit. But I'm still working full-time. That means it's not my entire life.
Full-time means you have... a five-day week, 40 hours or a 38-hour week, and then you still have to train a bit on top of that. A
a bit in quotation marks. Yeah, a bit. Like, I don't know, I train for 10 to 15 hours.
Simply, yeah, in the end, I enjoy it too. I think otherwise, if you don't have fun training, then maybe X-Alps isn't the right goal for you.
And some people might know me more as a bit of a workaholic. I mean, I'm always on the move, always out there, always motivated to do something. I'm not the type to just sit around and watch Netflix or anything like that.
Do you have something like a fixed training plan or a personal trainer who put that together for you? Did you do a fitness check beforehand and all that stuff that today's X-Alps pros do?
No, I did it a bit differently. I can also talk to Michael Lacher and people like that, who have also done X-Alps. And they were... Michael was also at F7 during X-Alps and wasn't that happy. And I thought, okay, there's someone in my village who used to be a pro runner. And I just met up with him often and got some input from him, or gave him some. Because he also trains about 10 to 15 hours a week and he's still one of the... yeah, still the fastest for how much he does and sets up, even with kids. And with his input, I try to implement it as best as I can myself. And because I'm also working now, I have the flexibility to shape it however fits me best.
And if you have a fixed training plan and try to follow it, it can sometimes be difficult and not as efficient as it could be. So if you've already worked all day, intervals in the evening are often no longer 100 percent efficient; they just don't give you everything. You
You said you'll be working less starting May 1st. Will you be completely free, or just reducing your hours to have a bit more time for training? Or do you want more time for preparation, for all the other organizational stuff around it?
So I'm just completely off. But it's vacation and overtime. It's not that I've somehow reduced my hours contractually, but just vacation and overtime. And yeah, I think there's so much. So sure, for training too. And also... a bit to take the stress out of it, so you can just put in a day when you have to organize something. You can just make an appointment if it fits right now and don't have to worry that it'll be moved to the evening, where you might then have to dial it back a bit during training that day. And time always flies until everything is set up properly. What falls...
what's the hardest part for you during training on
hardest?
Yes, I think that's a very difficult question. It always depends... a bit on the daily routine. What I find most difficult. Sure, I don't have that issue right now. But if I'm away from home for work, on a site visit. If you're then in a group of three or four and the other three don't do any sports, but you still have to fit the sports into your day. Or something like that.
So it's more the organizational difficulty of it.
Yeah, and then there's the motivation. When you go out here at home, I find it's always easier for me. But then, when you have to go running on a track. Or when you don't have anything else to do. Or then... I'm just starting to go to China now. Running around between skyscrapers like that—the motivation for the sport isn't as high, it doesn't always come easily to me.
Now many people might be wondering, what is this Bavarian guy doing in China? Explain it briefly.
So, yeah, my job. I work in special machinery engineering in the automotive industry. That means we build plants for all sorts of car parts. And... we have a plant in China. That's where I just was. We build the plants for all the global locations. And that's why I'm on the road sometimes. You always have to go there.
Do you always take your paraglider with you? Or is... on trips like these, business trips, there's no time left to go flying somewhere?
So in January, I combined them. I just went on to Colombia afterwards, where I was flying myself, because I was already in Mexico for work. And then I thought, okay, all the way to South America. I'll take a look around there too. But otherwise, the glider usually stays right at home, because I actually try to get back as quickly as possible.
The mountains are calling. The X-Alps are coming up now, so it starts in mid-June. Do you have any respect for the X-Alps?
Yes, I think a bit of respect is part of it. But on the other hand, I'd say the anticipation definitely outweighs it. The route is certainly demanding.
But not because I'm afraid of anything.
If you're worried about something, what are you worried about leading up to a race like this? What concerns you the most? Or where does your stomach tighten up, maybe? Or however you put it, how does it feel for you?
I think the thing I have the most respect for is simply that... Up until now, you've always been managed pretty well. But in the X-Alps, you're just flying in all kinds of conditions.
The limit is sometimes close. Where it just isn't possible anymore. Where it just flies backwards or something like that. I can handle the conditions pretty well for a long time. But somewhere there's still a limit, and you cross that limit. That's actually what I have the most respect for.
Is that also a fear of your own ambition?
Maybe a little.
Are you an ambitious person? Yes. Where does that come from?
I don't know, no idea.
I've always felt that way. I've always had that drive. When you do something, you want to do it well, anyway. I think it comes from my mindset. The way I approach everything. Like, if you do something, you do it right. That's what we'd say. And yeah, no half-measures.
These hike-and-fly races are pretty tough on the body and the mind. You have to hike thousands of meters of elevation. Then, as you said yourself, you often have to fly in difficult conditions—sometimes extreme conditions. What appeals to you about that?
What appeals to me most about hiking holidays, I find time and again, is that you're simply, you're kind of forced to go out sometimes.
So, when you're at home, sometimes it's like, wow, everyone is pulling you in different directions. Because if you look at it, the weather might turn later. Ah, it might be too windy later or something. Or the weather might not be right. That's completely irrelevant in a Hiken-Fly race. You're outside, you just make the best of the day. And in the end, there are usually so many beautiful moments. And it was so cool in the end that you can take home so many "jam jar" moments, that's definitely the value.
So, the value is that you have no reason to let yourself be held back?
Yeah, exactly.
And yes, you're constantly being surprised all over again. In flying, I find that in general, when you're flying routes, you fly around the next corner, around the next mountain, and you have a completely new situation. You see completely new mountains, landscapes, or maybe you suddenly have a lot of headwind even though you had a tailwind the whole time before. A bit of that is the surprise and also what makes it so appealing. What's behind the next mountain?
I just have this image of—I don't know if you know the book—Ronja Räubertochter.
And Ronja Räubertochter sometimes stands there and just calls out into the wind, "Mr. Danger," because she simply wants to expose herself to whatever comes her way. That's the image I just have of you. Is it sometimes like that? Now that you just said, yeah, I have a tailwind and then you come around the corner and suddenly you have a full headwind and have to face something new again. But that's actually what makes it so appealing.
Yes. Yes and no. Well, I think that also means a lot, in the sense that you expect something behind the next hill. When you're flying, you always have this image of where the winds are coming from. Am I currently in the air? Am I in the lee? So I think it's important to always have that in mind or to consider where I am right now. What could be behind the next hill? But still, sometimes it's just the case that behind the next hill, it's not what you imagined.
So it's not so much about the thrill of the danger, but also just constantly weighing your own knowledge and seeing if it holds up.
And if it's not right, do you take the shit or do you say, hey great, a hair's breadth challenge? It always depends
it depends on how it feels.
Normally, I'm the one who says, okay, I'll deal with this. I'll push through, I'll keep going. But sometimes, fleeing is just the better option.
You had success from the very beginning in your Hike & Fly races. I think in your first Border Race, which was in 2022 in Altaussee, you won right away. If I remember correctly, you even ran, I think, 158 kilometers in those 36 hours or 33 hours, or however long it takes.
Where does that come from? Are you like a natural talent, a running natural talent and a flying natural talent? Or where does that come from? First competition, first victory?
I think those who know me better now would say you only see me once I know I'm good enough.
So yeah, I started flying in 2018. So I've only been flying for four years now.
And I'd say, until 2021, I was completely under the radar. Sure, a few people already knew me, but not many, really, because at the beginning I was also out there a lot on my own. And then there was Border Race. And yeah, I think the race was a bit special anyway, because it was only bad weather. So the race was even shortened to 32 hours, so an hour shorter. And in that race, I was probably the most motivated,
because running 158 kilometers isn't exactly relaxing. I mean, it was a massive distance.
I don't think I could do it. And probably the few who actually participated would want to run 158 kilometers, especially in bad weather conditions.
Yeah, but I was there in the evening when it came down to when to turn around, because I was in second place.
And that's how it is with the Border Race, okay, so you just keep running another 100 meters like the second person or like the leader and only turn around after that. And then you have to come back. That means you've already turned around the furthest. And then, well, that's where the ambition kicks in, to get it back to the finish line.
Last year, you also caused quite a stir. You finished second at the X-Peer. And what was special about that, I think, was the last day, where you did this special flight over coastal mountains where the others had already landed in the plains; you took a completely different path in the air and then, your competition,
...caught up with, overtaken, and flown over. How did it happen that you chose this other route that no one else had ever tried before?
So on that day, I think I started as third, and,
Yeah, no, as the fourth. And we flew like this. And then we were at the point where, we came from behind, from the north, tipped down, and we were at base 3000 and the next moment we were at base 1500, where we then crashed into this coastal area or got closer to the sea. And then I already saw, there are also nice clouds standing on the left today, and everyone else is actually flying on an optimized line, let's say, straight towards the goal. And then it was like, okay, if I just fly behind them, the probability of me doing it better is very low. And if I do something else and have to, maybe I can save myself the 25-kilometer hike at 35 degrees, because that's no fun either.
And I just tried it. I aborted the first attempt and went back. At that point, even if I had just skidded straight ahead, I would have already lost a position anyway. But then, on the second attempt, it was actually perfect, because the whole valley crossing—from mountain to mountain—was, I think, almost ten kilometers. Until the 1500 base, which isn't that exaggeratedly much. But then, all the time, these wispy clouds were forming in front of me again. And there were constantly a few birds that we had to dodge. And then it went perfectly. Only at the very end was I actually a bit too slow, because I was flying quite defensively. Because if you veer off in that area, you're obviously far off course.
But then I was able to glide in until three kilometers from the finish. That was already kind of the highlight of the race and saved some time. You always have to think for yourself and find your own way. Just because the others did one thing doesn't mean it's the best thing for you.
Was that something like your magic move? Like the way Kriegel can do his magic moves? Did Christian Schuck do his magic move?
I think a lot of people saw it that way. For me, it was cool that what I had in my head actually worked out. Because I think what I have in my head sometimes gets in the way a bit, that I'm too much of a "my own head" type and not very tactical. How would you describe your flight style?
Very direct. Only as high as necessary. So mostly rather low.
I think that hits the nail on the head.
Very direct also means you're not afraid of the lee.
Yeah. So even if you look at 300 or something, the first ridges, no, always direct. Direct back into the next lee, where it starts going up properly in the morning. Sure, in the morning it's not that intense yet. I don't know where that comes from. I think it's just developed over time. Usually, it's like, you have to consider how much protection a mountain provides.
If you have a flat mountain, it just gets washed over and you won't find anything in the lee. But if you're further in the high mountains with something really steep, and you fly way back into it, you're usually just flying through the lee, but as you go up, it actually starts again where there's wind protection. Where there's less lee, that's usually where it starts rising again.
How do you assess those types of lee effects? Do you have your own rules or limits, like, okay, I'll fly into the lee up to 15 km/h wind, but not beyond that? Or I know, today the layering is very unstable, so I'm not worried about lee effects, but with stable air, I am. So are there things where you judge it differently? Or do you say, I flew into the lee there last time, so I'll fly into it again today, no matter what comes?
So I think if you can turn up with more than a meter in the Louvre, you're better off staying in the Louvre.
And if it's really weak in the Louvre, then I usually go into the lee. Regardless of what the other conditions are? Yeah, that means I think a lot of it depends on saying that it rises by more than a meter in the Louvre; either there's already a lot of wind blowing on it, and
then you ask the question: what's the orientation to the sun? So, is it 180 degrees to the Louvre? Or is it 90 degrees to the Louvre? What's the general weather situation? Are there clouds? Can you see anything else? Where do you expect lift? And then also, what the terrain looks like. So, if the terrain is more like forest—forest and flat—or meadow and flat, then the lee usually isn't worth it.
So, as steep as possible, as sheltered as possible, as sun-oriented as possible. Exactly. From the things you just described—terrain analysis, where the sun is, what the wind is doing—do you really go through all that very deliberately in your head when you're flying? Or are you one of those people who just flies by instinct and then realizes afterwards, basically, I did everything right? I
I think a bit of both. Especially at the beginning, I also...
sometimes you just inhale it all quite strongly now, all the lectures, the media, everything that's out there, all the information, for example from you too. And if you fly a lot,
I think you can also decide a lot based on gut feeling, because the whole thing has already settled in a bit subconsciously.
everything is set and you can just fall back on that. But especially when I have a long glide, for example, you have time to think about it,
what's waiting for me in the next mountain? Where's the best spot now? Because if I aim for the peak, I still have both options for both sides, for all sides of the mountain, and I can already think about what comes next. So, I think it's a mix of feeling, intuition, and just thinking it through mentally.
Well, you still need quite a few pilot skills for sled flying. Have you trained in any specific way, or do you have tips on how to train to become a good sled flyer? That
is the question of whether that should be the ultimate goal. No, but
So, we've also done SIV training, and now it's like, we actually—or I personally—do a lot of training. I mean, there are things that say, okay, if you compare it to football, it's always training, but with paragliding, it's often the case that many people just go out to fly and do a nice glide. I think that's part of it too. But still, if you set a goal for yourself during many flights and say, okay, I want to train something specific today, I'm at the point now where I fly a lot of stories too, and I just believe that through many hours you can interpret the glider's reaction very well and then already know what to expect.
Has it ever really wrecked you in the lee? I'd say at the beginning. Like, when I was on the C-glider or something,
I've already taken a front collapse or something like that. I have it better under control now. What kind of gliders are you flying today?
Enzo. Last year I flew a Zeolite. Before that, I had a Zehner. Now I'm flying with Vieh here. So, Scala. So basically just a two-liner.
Is flying into the lee with a two-liner riskier or less risky than with a three-liner C? In terms of the options you have as a pilot, handling the canopy over the B handles, and then maybe steering it differently as a two-liner compared to a classic three-liner.
I can't really say that much right now, because I haven't flown a three-liner with a good PC control in ages. I had a Sigma 10 back then, and that didn't have it. And if I compare that to a two-liner, it's just a different world. I mean, what you can do with the rear triangles today.
You were asked differently, but what has been the biggest setback you've had while flying so far?
I don't know, the biggest one is, let's just say, we'll see, but I was in Colombia this year, for example, where the co-pilot crashed. I was directly 200 meters behind. I was also one of the first responders.
Was Franz Schild, was that guy?
Yeah, exactly.
And yeah, that's something that really makes you think a bit. Especially regarding risk, and it always happens so fast. Or even last week with the accident involving Jeppi or someone. I also spoke with him at the Staufen Cup. I'd known him for a long time, and then just two days later, he's dead. It just keeps showing you how fast it can happen. And in the end, when flying, your head is a decisive factor. Yeah. And things like that can block you a bit. But it's also good that you think about it and have to find a way to deal with it again.
How does something like that affect you? You said you were a first responder for Franz Schild. When you say you were flying behind him, did you land right at the crash site, so to speak?
Yes. Well, I was flying in Zeolite. I'd say that makes landing significantly easier. And the terrain wasn't actually that difficult. And exactly, we landed about 50 meters away from him. There were four of us in the end. We took care of him and then, let's say, triggered the rescue. But we didn't have many more options at that point.
And did something like that significantly hold you back on your next flights? Do you notice that?
I don't think so during the flight itself, but actually more before and after. I mean, I took off again right away that day. Then three hours or two and a half hours later, I flew back as well as I could. But by then, Pacifico was already kicking in. That means I didn't quite make it back, but I was in the air. And I think that's also kind of the cool thing about it—that I can actually just focus on the flying and switch off.
and have nothing else on my mind.
Although there are situations where you're turning against a rock face or something like that. And that doesn't quite fit the accident scenarios right now, but it's a bit different. But still, when the group is moving, that's how it is.
I used to just pull them through the circles, just fly right through. Nowadays, I do more figure-eights and don't fly the circles quite so aggressively anymore.
Just to have a bit more distance from the slope.
Do you also attribute this more defensive behavior to those accidents that were observed?
Yes, definitely.
Let's talk about something nice. Let's take a look at the X-Alps. This year, the route is particularly long and has that interesting X in the middle, the intersection in St. Moritz. What do you think of that?
It's cool that there's always something new. The last X-Alps, those were actually quite nice for paragliding, I'd almost say.
Four is always the main part, actually, and not much zigzagging or crossing, just a bit off the beaten path. A few parts are like via ferratas, the brakes out. So if you're there at the right time, you can gain a lot. If you're there at the wrong time, you can lose a lot, and there's always a turnpoint. So, and in St. Moritz there are even two turnpoints. That means you have to run from one to the other.
So, I'd say the whole route has a bit more of an adventurous character to it now, a bit more of an internal element, and isn't just that extreme full-throttle flying anymore.
Does that suit you, or would you rather fly at full throttle? I mean, you flew that 300-kilometer triangle from the Nebelhorn. You can tell you're capable of flying very far and very fast. From that perspective, a route with a lot of flying might actually suit you perfectly. You're also strong on the running side. Maybe it's the other way around, where you're saying this is a route that might actually suit you particularly well. What's the current situation?
I'd say, she makes it a bit more interesting from the flying side, because with some of those crossings, it always depends—if the day is good, many crossings are just easy. If the day is bad, then you just have to...
...just push through, and that's also kind of the cool part, seeing how far you actually get. But on a bad day, when you're just constantly around the next corner and then turning back again. Sure, in the end, it's a bit of a grind, but who doesn't do that?
Well, because that's just significantly, significantly more relaxed. But I don't think it changes much whether it's flying race tracks or something like that. Whether it's cross-country or something, it doesn't matter that much to me. For me, the landscape character and the riding are maybe even a bit higher, because even on a good day, I have to watch out so I don't fly into construction sites, whereas on a race track on a good day, you're already flying from thermals to thermals.
In that case, the tactical demand, and even the flying demand, might actually be a bit higher.
Are you a good tactician?
So when it comes to cross-country flying, I think I do, or at least I know pretty well how much I need to turn to reconnect at the next crossing. But I've mentioned this before, with group flying it's a bit different, a different tactic, and I'm not that good at that. But a lot comes with experience, so I just lack the group flying experience.
But X-Alps isn't like kumpfliegen, where you're out there in the big glide, following the pack and staying together as long as possible just to somehow fly out with that little lead at the end. X-Alps is also—sure, you fly together sometimes—but still, a lot of it is really about personal flying skill, personal route choice, and stuff like that being absolutely decisive.
So, from my experience with other high-flying races, flying together is a bit different. It's more like flying with friends.
Well, when it's always cool like that, it's already such a community where you know each other, you have respect for one another, and in the end, when we're together, I'm also someone who really enjoys running with the others and just chatting with them. Yeah, it's just more fun when you can share a bit. Where
what do you see as the biggest challenges of this route for you?
I think so, and the whole airspace is already a major challenge. I mean, anyone looking at the route won't see them. But we have a case here. And if you take a closer look and see, okay, where are the nature reserves, where are you not allowed to take off, where are you not allowed to land, and then you add the normal airspaces on top of that, you get a pretty red carpet of restrictions. So, even St. Moritz with the Samedan area and so on.
It's not like you can just say, okay, I'll fly along the optimized route; you have to accept a bit of a detour in some places.
And airspace violations are, well, I think it's good that they're strictly enforced. And I also have to be a bit of a role model with all the nature reserves because they're so heavily monitored. So in any case, it's good that they exist. But they don't make things any easier.
How do you handle the planning, like route planning, with your team? Do you do that yourself, or do you have someone on the team who specifically tries to plan routes for you and then somehow transfers them to your instrument or gives you some kind of guidance on the best way to do it?
Well, I think it's partly both. I believe it's important for the pilot to be capable of navigating the theory on their own. But in the end, it really is a help if you just get inputs from the outside, like, okay, here's the pass, there might be one ahead of you, so high or that looked good, that looked bad; then you simply get input in the air with little effort to feed into your mental picture more heavily to find the best route. And my attitude is that it's important to know your way around so well
and can orient yourself a bit, so that you know where you are and which direction you need to fly without having to constantly look at your phone.
Because in the end, it takes a lot of concentration away from the flying. You can't observe the clouds as well, you can't observe the birds as well, and you don't fly as fast. So, for example, with my 300er triangle, I flew it in that way clearly for the first time on that day.
But even so, I was familiar enough with the whole area to know where I had to place my turning points, so I can actually fly it without looking at my phone. And a lot of people always laugh when I say, okay, I don't actually need a power bank because my phone is actually off most of the time. That means the battery lasts all day.
How do you orient yourself then? Do you prepare heavily with Google Earth or whatever, looking at it all so you have sort of mental images in your head that you can then map out, or how do you do it?
I think if you've already been somewhere, or even if not, and you have the valley shapes in your head from Google Earth or something, then being able to orient yourself involves spatial thinking again. But if you know, okay, further along the valley, there's this one valley, I have to get out of there towards the back in that direction. So just by looking at other mountains, at familiar landmarks.
orienting yourself and then matching it with a map you have in your head to see, okay, which valley am I in now? Okay, it has to be from mountain XY and then I have to get there. Have you ever gotten lost?
What do you mean by "lost"?
Yeah, that you had a route in your head and thought, I have to get over there because it looks like... only to find out later, well, the mountain looked a bit different on Google Earth, and I've now confused it with the neighboring mountain from the other valley and turned into the wrong one.
So I think if I'm unsure, I'll take out my phone. So it's not that I've gotten lost at some point. It's not like I don't have it with me or don't know my way around, but I feel like flying is more rewarding when you're not dependent on digital devices, but maybe just have a radio beeping and you can just enjoy the rest sometimes.
For the X-Alps, you don't do the route prep while flying, but in the evening or whenever else, you sit at the computer and look at a lot of Google Earth or whatever and go through the route piece by piece, flying it mentally, so to speak, trying to memorize it or whatever, yeah.
Exactly, so just every now and then in between, even if it's not currently being offered, going through Google Earth or just XContest maps and material—where are the classic sections, where is a lot of flying happening, which corners will have a lot of traffic—then also having in mind where the tailwind is always blowing. That's one point I pay attention to and also like to do.
Do you do that as a team too? Like with the people you form a team with, or is it something where you say, "As a pilot, I just have to have this in my head while I'm in the air"?
A bit, so I just pass on some input where I think, okay, this is something, this is something important.
Who is even in your team? Well, my brother is back; he was also with X-Bill. He doesn't fly himself, but...
Because of that, it's clear—I didn't have to do any races where he wasn't there, so at the very least, in a small race where he was supporting, he was a bit involved. That means he knows what it's about by now, how to find starting spots, and can organize well. I'd say he has the rest of the team under control, or at least knows what matters and can set priorities well, I think. My sister is in too, so that's like the family thermal. She's flying brutally well by now and is also very fit. Then Pirmin is still there; he's already a good friend of all three of us. And then we'll do another rotation part—it's not completely fixed who goes for how long, but I think it's a good combination because the most important thing is that the team
works well together, that the team has fun, and that no one says after two weeks, "that was crap, I'm not in the mood for this anymore."
If your brother doesn't fly, what fascinates him so much about always supporting you and coming along?
Yeah, I think the flying part is usually something the pilots do alone, but things like X-country, for example, we're often out together in the morning hiking up, he'll take the bike with him or ride back down and stuff. And I think that's a point, those mountain moments where you just discover something new and then find new paths hiking up together.
it's always so cool when you can share that as siblings, and I also find it mega cool—I still have that from Born to Fly last year in my head—I was in third place in the NDR Dritter, and I was at the finish line and she wasn't there yet, and when they drove onto the parking lot and you could hear them immediately that they were arriving because they were so happy and basically partying because I had finished in third place, and yeah, that's just... I think for him, those moments where you discover something new in the mountains and can experience something cool are definitely part of it, and
exactly
Does your sister do Hike & Fly races now too? So that means soon you guys as the Schuk dynasty will be dominating the X-Alps somewhere?
Let's see, who knows. Right now, it's things like Wanderbird or something, we do that quite often because anyone can join in. You just head out, there's little effort involved, and yet you still have a cool weekend.
With the girls, she really puts in the effort, and usually, they can back that up. I think she's even more ambitious than I am.
Is ambition a family trait?
Yes
What gear will you be using for the
X-Alps flying? Yes, I fly with the Flyers Centaur, the Cyan is an X-Alps version, it's the new French brand, so it's a submarine-style harness, and then for the wing, a Scale 20 Light.
Why such a submarine harness? An inflated cigar, a fat piece of gear—maybe not in terms of pack volume, but in the air it's a pretty big piece, and probably a bit more involved to put on because you have to slip it over like a vest and all that. Does that actually fit Hike and Fly at all?
From a feeling perspective, I think it's just brutally good, and it's also a help for your head. A help for your head? Explain that to me.
Briefly, yes.
if you simply have the best, so you feel like you have an advantage in terms of performance compared to the others, then that's more of a positive thought. On the other hand, if you have a very simple harness and you just know that, in that moment, you're always at a performance disadvantage, then your head has to be all the stronger so that you don't let that negative thought take hold, because you have one less way to lose it mentally.
then secondly, I think the extra weight of the harness balances out because you have to take fewer clothes with you since it's simply warmer inside, right? Because it's just mega warm, and I actually think that the light harnesses tend to be even more...
warmer are like a submarine, so when the sun shines through that thin fabric, it feels like a heating plate under your feet. You can really feel how the sun's setting, how the thermal radiation hits your feet. And right now, with the Sian I'm flying, I find it's harder to put on, but it holds up against all the limits because I can open the harness completely and I can still put it on pretty quickly. That means I don't have to slip through anything; I can open it all the way, and it's already very user-friendly in terms of handling. So, like...
Is that a visibility issue for you as a pilot? I mean, if you have these slightly inflated pods on your left and right, you can't look down as well—so your downward field of vision is a bit worse. Would you see disadvantages for things like landings or whatever, maybe a slightly increased risk when...
I don't think so for top landings, but you definitely see worse downwards. That's how it is, and sometimes I personally find that if I want to follow a ridge while flying, I have to specifically look sideways downwards to see where I am relative to the ridge, whether this is even the optimal lift area or if I shouldn't fly ten meters to the left or right instead.
And what many people say, for example when starting, is that you can tuck your head in, it works quite well, and I don't fly with a full-face helmet myself either because I think it makes a significant difference. If I fly a submarine with a full-face helmet, it feels like a capsule or like it's really sharply oriented forward, not to the left and right, and I think the helmet makes a big difference there. You just say, okay, you have a completely normal one—they've even included this ski helmet standard now—a completely normal ski helmet or just a normal helmet, you can look much better to the left and right than if you have a full-face helmet, but
I don't think I've ever seen an X-Alps athlete with a full-face helmet. I think they all always have these relatively small shells on top that just barely fit the regulations—as light and small as possible.
But that was just generally about the submarine topic; I think you always have to look at the entire combination, not just the parachute itself, but what else the pilot has on. And the helmet is also a factor there that I find limits you a bit.
And why the Scala, and why not the Zeolite, if you've flown it before?
Yeah, it's just the overall package, I'm really happy with it and
Sponsored by
Yeah, I think some really cool stuff is coming up now. For example, when I'm planning to build a D&D glider that's actually tuned a bit for speed, I've always flown bread types and that one really appealed to me—it's very direct in terms of handling.
Zeolite also has its weaknesses too, and I said okay, no, that works for me, it provides a complete package, and I'm happy with it now. There are
three other German athletes, or one of them who is participating in the X-Alps, do you have contact with them or are you in touch with them? Do you maybe even train with them sometimes, or is that competition?
Well, I think we're on pretty friendly terms with each other, and that's really cool. We all met up with Celine in the fall, or just now at the Staufen KV—Markus and Philipp were there again too. And even two weeks before that, Markus had a meeting with his supporters, or exactly, they were in Sonthofen, so right around the corner from me. Then on Sunday, we went to go flying, drove to the parking lot, just opened the door, and then Markus drives past and I'm like, "Huh, why is he here with us?" And then, without even having planned it, we all went flying together. And that's cool. I think Markus just has a lot of experience; he handles it very professionally.
and you can take away a few pieces of information and input from that, and they
he also passes them on as well
Yeah, so I think I've received a sensible, honest answer to every question I've asked so far.
I think that's one of the nice things about the paragliding scene; as far as I can see, the competition is never so great that if you just ask nicely, you don't get honest answers. It's not like people would hold back a lot or anything like that, at least in my experience.
You have to be honest with yourself—what's the point? What's it all about? It's really just about having fun yourself and collecting those "jam jar" moments. There's no reason to shut down towards others, because why would you deny them that or not support them?
Where do you see yourself at the end of the X-Alps?
happy at the finish line and then back into the flow again, so not falling into a mental hole or causing problems some other way, but just that the year goes on, life goes on, and let's just say X-Alps 27 will be there again.
did you fall into a slump after the X-Peer?
no
So, for example, when we were at the finish, we went cycling every day again. That was also a bit to close the circle. My energy level is usually always high, or I'm always ready to do something, so those two days we were at the finish until the awards ceremony—or was it even longer, I don't even know anymore—we just kept doing active holidays every day like that.
Doing active holidays like Hike & Fly races—maybe that's what active holidays mean for you, X—the X-Alps is a great opportunity to collect a lot of "jam jar" moments and eventually reach the finish line. Christian, I hope it works out just like that with all the successes you've already achieved. I'd classify you as a bit of a "noble rookie" who might have very good chances of actually making it to the finish. I hope the weather plays along so you don't end up having to do way too much running, and that the route doesn't end up being a bit too long. But I think, just like in recent years where there was a lot of flying, there will probably be a lot of flying again this year, regardless of what the weather does in the end.
I'm excited, in any case. Many thanks to Lucien for the invitation, and I wish everyone who listened to the podcast until the end always good weather and a safe landing.
If you'd like to support Christian Schuck in his also costly X-Alps adventure, he's set up a donation page on GoFundMe. You can find the link to that and some others in the show notes for the episode in the Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz. And if you'd also like to support my work on Podz-Glidz and Lu-Glidz, you can do that as well. As a freelance journalist, I put a lot of time, work, and also costs into the podcast and blog so that I can continue to keep it this professional.
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