I think when I went to Brazil for the first time, I didn't have any goals, like kilometer goals. I just took all the thermals and flew slowly. And this year, I had this dream of 500 kilometers and I flew many flights way too fast. And sometimes, even the thermals I hit, I'd say, no, I'm not taking it, it's not that good. And then I was also on the ground pretty quickly.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the cosmos of paragliding.
Today with Serena Ronchi. And I am Lucian Haas.
Anyone who has followed the cross-country flight rankings of the Swiss and international online contests over the past few years would have noticed this name. Serena Ronchi. The 32-year-old Franco-Swiss woman has not only consistently won the women's category in the Swiss Championship in the sport class over the past three years, but also won the women's category internationally each time. She even finished the 2025 season of the FAI World XC Online Contest in first place in both the series and sport classes. Overall, mind you. Serena does most of her truly long cross-country flights in Brazil, over the dry Sertão in the northeast of the country. For five years, she has been traveling there regularly during the European autumn to start as early as possible and land as late as possible on every flyable day.
If you manage that, long distances are guaranteed. In this episode 174 of Podz-Glidz, Serena Ronchi talks about both this passion and its downsides. In 2021, she had a serious accident. After that, for months it wasn't clear if she would ever be able to fly again. And when she finally did get back into the air, fear became her constant companion. How she fought her way out of that low point is also what this podcast is about.
By the way, I can only present special conversations like this on Podz-Glidz because there are sponsors who financially support my work on the podcast and blog. Join in too. You can find all the necessary information about this on the Gleitschirm-Blog Nugleits, specifically on the Fördern page.
Serena, what is it like landing in the Brazilian Sertão after a long flight when the sun has already gone down?
So you really have to be very fast, because in about 15 minutes after the sun has set, it's dark. And you need a long time. You need a lamp, because by the time you pack the paraglider, it's already very dark. And you have to have a lamp to know where you are, because sometimes you land in the middle of nowhere.
And how do you find your way out of nowhere in the Sertão again, even if you have a lamp, when it's already really dark? And how do you find the driver again to get a ride back and all that?
Yeah, well, I had a little adventure. A few days ago, because I was in Brazil and I landed after sunset. And I thought I'd land next to a path where the car could come. And I followed this path in the air and landed next to this path. Then I packed everything up. It was already dark. And then I walked along this path. And then I realized, oh no, it's just sand. The car can't come there. And then I started running, running, running in this sand, in this darkness.
It was a bit scary, but actually, I like adventures and I had fun.
Aren't there any wild animals or anything like that?
Yes, there are wild animals. And I noticed that. And I learned that later, because where I was, there were pumas.
So you're supposed to not be out there after sunset, is that what they say?
Or landing near a city. But in that bush, in that jungle, it's not recommended to land there at night.
How did you get out of there then? Just by walking?
So I walked for maybe 45 minutes. And then I met three boys who were on this path with a motorcycle. And they told me, "Oh, someone is coming for you, to pick you up." And I said, "Yes, but the car doesn't come here." And they said, "Yes, but someone is coming with your motorcycle." And then my driver came with a motorcycle. And another man with another motorcycle. And then we put the luggage on that motorcycle. And I was behind the other man. And we rode there on the motorcycle through the sand.
And that was way more of an adrenaline rush than the flight. Because they ride like wild people on those motorcycles in that sand.
And yes, I'm there. And I was maybe eight kilometers from a small village. And if he hadn't come with that motorcycle, I would have had to walk a lot more.
But you knew there was a village coming up. So you would have also known which direction you had to walk to cover those eight kilometers to the village.
Yes, exactly. You really have to check where the path is before you land. Because sometimes there are miles and miles of just trees and no path. Sometimes there's a lot of walking to do.
And about the lamp, you knew that you definitely had to bring one with you.
Yeah, exactly, because the sun—it gets dark very quickly, yeah.
Dark means, what time is that then? 6 p.m.? Does the sun set then and you have to have just landed? Or when is that roughly? Yes,
it depends on where you are. But the sun goes down at around 6 p.m., yeah.
And when did you start that day?
Around half past seven.
Seven-thirty. So, more than ten hours of flying, landing in the dark, and then having to get back out through the sand there. How far was the flight?
That was 470 kilometers.
Oh, wow. Was that your longest flight so far?
Yes, exactly. Last year I was at 469 kilometers. Then I flew 66, and this year I'm three kilometers more.
So 472. Yeah. In Brazil, many people are always aiming for those 500 kilometers. Has that actually been your goal too, to fly 500 kilometers at least once?
Yes, that is definitely a dream. And I know it's possible with a C-glider, because I fly a C-glider. Last year, the first two Czechs, Standa and Hugo, flew 500 kilometers. And this year, Andra also flew 500 kilometers with a C-glider. I would love to do that too. But it takes a lot of training, because it's not easy at all to cover many kilometers in Brazil.
Flying in the flatlands there.
It's quite a mental game because you start very early. Sometimes you land after 30 kilometers and then you can't take off again because it's too late. And you have to go back to the hotel.
Sometimes you fly from cloud to cloud and you think, wow, it's an awesome day. But five minutes later you're already on the ground because you didn't catch your thermals. Yeah, it's... a game, thermals are a lot of fun. But sometimes it's also not easy.
So you've been going back to Brazil for years now. I think 2021 or so was your first time there. What keeps drawing you back? I mean, why Brazil specifically? Why always that dry Sertão and always this urge to fly so far there? What is it that's so fascinating about it for you? I mean...
I love the people there. They are so open and they're always ready to help. So when you land...
But for the people, you wouldn't have to go up into the air. If you say you love the people, you could also just walk around down there and say, "Look, I'm constantly meeting people." So why fly?
Yeah, because for flying, I think it's awesome to fly with the wind.
And as early as possible. And to start so early and know that you can fly every day. You just have to check the wind direction, but you know it's flyable every day. And you also have quite a few beautiful adventures when you land somewhere and meet people. I also find it so beautiful when there are clouds there. Sometimes there can be cloud streets for miles and miles. And you fly up to... up to 3,003 meters high. Yeah, at the end of the day, it's incredible to see the sunset and that light.
It's like magic when you fly there all day. It's just incredible. And in October, you can sometimes fly well into Europe. But actually, the season is already pretty much over in Europe.
You've been describing what you're experiencing there on a WhatsApp channel this year. And you've always described your flights. I didn't follow it at the moment you were there, but I read it later. I got the link and said I'd read it as preparation for this conversation, so I read through it a bit. And actually, the long flights you did, there were two over 470 kilometers, which were only at the very end. Okay. And before that, it was always like, for many days, it was always, yeah, I started really early and stuff. But then it was over again after two hours. And I was already back on the ground, or after three hours, or something like that. Exactly. Then you're standing somewhere in the Brazilian nowhere. Okay, you have a driver who picks you up.
But what do you do for the rest of the day?
Yeah, that's a good question. I think it depends on how you are there in Brazil. So. I don't know how I can explain that.
So, I know quite a few people there and I also speak Portuguese. And I'm lucky to enjoy the time with friends. So, you can go swimming in a lake or a river. You can also have a Churrasco. That's like a barbecue. Mhm. And you can't do much else because it's quite hot. It's like 35 degrees during the day and you don't feel like going hiking anywhere because it's way too warm. So just being in the pool and talking to other people or swimming in the lake, that's actually what you do.
Otherwise, you can read. And look at the clouds. But maybe you don't want to do that either.
If you've been held up, not always, but frequently this year, and landed early, are you the type of person who gets annoyed?
Not really. But I had two flights where, after landing, I was really annoyed. Because I didn't understand why I was coming now. Why I landed and why I'm doing so many small flights. That was a bit difficult. But otherwise, I tell myself, there's still tomorrow. I can fly tomorrow. And actually, the most important thing is to take off well, to land well. And I have my whole life to enjoy flying.
But yeah, if you always land early after ten flights, it annoyed me once. And yeah, I had to scream a bit after landing and let the emotions out. And then it was okay again. But I think it's also important to feel those emotions a bit. So that they then go away and you're not sad or angry anymore.
So Serena runs screaming through the bushes. Does that take a minute or ten minutes?
It depends. I think about five minutes. And then it's over.
And then you say, oh, the day is still beautiful. The sky is blue. The clouds are white.
Exactly. And
My driver will pick me up soon. Exactly.
Last year, so last season—well, it's still the 2025 season, but those flights you've done now, those 470 kilometers, don't count towards that. But before that, you also did a whole series of very long flights last year, or it was last year in Brazil, you did a whole series of flights over 400 kilometers, and also a whole series across the country over 300 kilometers. And with that, you won the women's ranking in the XContest. And in the World Cross Country Online XContest from the FAI, you're even at the top in the series class, the sport class, and the women's ranking. Is that important to you? Does it mean anything to you somehow? Or do you actually not look at that at all?
That's a good question.
So, I'm happy to have this competition. But for me, the most important thing is not to have an accident and to be able to fly for the rest of my life. Because, well, I had a pretty serious accident four years ago. And I thought maybe I'd stop paragliding. Because it was mentally quite difficult—the healing and starting to fly again. And now I just think, yeah, I just want to fly for the rest of my life.
I'd like to talk to you a bit more about that accident in a moment. But for now, let's stick to this XContest or something like that. If you say you actually want to fly a lot for yourself. And fly far, too. Then maybe this result in the XContest, or whichever XContest it is, is basically the side effect that comes out of that. But are you already proud of it?
Yes, I am proud of it.
But it's not like you start and have in mind, or has that ever happened, that you've started and said, I still need to do a 450-kilometer flight. Then I know, I'd be one place further up in the XContest standings. Or at the front or something. So do you look into something like that during the season too? Or is it just something where at the end you say, oh look, I'm way at the front?
I think around the middle of the season. I do check to see if I should maybe take another day off to do a long flight. But yeah, I think around the middle of the season. I'll take a look.
So that means you're already a bit ambitious too?
A little bit, yeah. But I look at it—how can I put this? Yeah, I actually enjoy starting very early and trying to optimize the whole day.
To start as early as possible and land as late as possible.
And also try to fly fast. But because I enjoy it. I wouldn't fly fast in conditions that are turbulent. Or if you push the speed bar. Yeah, in turbulent air. I don't have fun with that. I have to be having fun, and I wouldn't fly in bad conditions.
What appeals to you about saying, "I want to fly for as long as possible in one day"?
For me, it's like a game.
I see it like a game. Like starting as early as possible and landing as late as possible. For me, it's, I don't know how I can put this into words.
I have to think.
Let's leave it at that. It's a game for you, and that's what appeals to you. What was your latest landing so far, I mean, your latest one? Did we already know? 6:00 PM and a bit, and it was already dark. What was your earliest start where you stayed up there? I mean, where you managed to catch the thermals too?
6:45 AM in Brazil.
Oh wow. In Kaiko. That works then. So it's already thermally active there, that you can really ramp it up.
Yes. I think it already started about a quarter past six.
With a connection?
Yes.
Why does that happen?
Why does it get so warm so early in Brazil? I mean, it's not like... it's flat land where you start, Kaiko, I think. It's not like you'd say the east sun just rose and is shining on one east-facing slope warming it up; it's actually flat land. Why does it already work so early?
I think the sunrise is around half past four. So it's already had time to warm up.
And that's very unstable. But
So that means at seven, the sun isn't just barely above the horizon, but is actually already relatively high?
Yes, it is. It's already warm at seven. You can really feel the sun.
But the strongest thermals time is, as usual with us, around midday. Early afternoon.
Not necessarily. I think it's around 2 p.m. And you can already have very strong thermals at ten. We already have about five meters per second at ten. And at noon, there's often a midday break with the thermals. So the thermals are a bit weaker. It's harder to get up. I don't know exactly why. But often, from half past eleven to half past one, it's a bit harder to get up.
So it could be related to that, that's a theory of mine, especially in dry areas like in Cerdoa or something. A lot of the thermals also depend on the moisture that rises with them, so that they can rise well. And plants also have a daily cycle, when they open and close the stomata of their leaves. And if it's too hot, they close the stomata and thus let less moisture into the air. And only after a while, when they say, I need to get some air again, do they open the stomata again. And then more moisture enters the air again. Because of that, you can also have a moisture cycle during the day, near the ground, where the plants transpire more or less.
I don't know if that's the case in Brazil, but it could certainly be that these dry plants are adapted to say, during the strongest heat of the sun, I'll close my stomata, won't release any moisture, and because of that, the thermals coming out from below lose some moisture, and if they don't have much moisture, they can't rise as high and don't pull through as well at the top and don't form clouds anymore. Maybe that's also why it sometimes dries out at noon and
at the beginning of
The clouds will come back in the afternoon.
That's very interesting, yes. It could be an option.
You can keep that in the back of your mind for the next flights to Brazil or see if something like that exists. Mhm.
Let's take a little look back at your aviation career. When did you actually start flying?
In 2018.
How old were you then? 25. Why did you start, I mean, what appealed to you?
I had done a tandem flight when I was younger, around 18, and it was an incredible experience for me. That sense of freedom.
Having that feeling of flying. Mhm. And I didn't think that was something I could do. I thought it was very difficult to fly. One day, yeah, I was 25, I did a via ferrata. And there I met two men who flew down after that via ferrata. And actually, I hate hiking down. And I thought, wow, that is so cool. Flying down after a via ferrata. And then I called a flight school, spoke with the flight instructor, and then started flying pretty quickly.
Was it when you did your first solo flight that it was such a flash that you said, "This is my life now"?
Yes, totally. Totally. I was still in school. And I knew I wanted to do this tandem jump because I wanted to show my friends how beautiful it is to fly.
So, at the flight school, right after you just learned, you already said you wanted to become a tandem pilot.
Ah yes. I had done maybe 20 flights and already knew I wanted to do this tandem trial. And then I had to wait two years because the rules changed when I started flying. You didn't have to wait a year anymore, but now you have to wait two years to start the tandem. That was quite a long time for me.
But you had, I mean, two years, in those two years you also made enormous progress, so you celebrated very fast successes. If I saw that correctly, already two years later, so in 2020, you flew a whole series of hundreds and more than 100 kilometers in Switzerland. And all with an ENB glider. How did you make such fast progress? Did you go flying that much all the time?
I think I was lucky to meet the right people who motivated me to get into the Swiss league, where I could do training with many, many good pilots. And then I also met pilots from a club as a freerider. And the pilots there, they are mega good. And I was also able to get good tips from them and see how they do it, like flying all day and choosing good launch sites and analyzing the weather. And that helped me a lot.
That
So, you took that in correctly? Yes. You soaked up everything they offered you? Yes. Is there any pilot you would say was your role model back then or a mentor?
Many.
So, when I started, it was Reynald Mumenteiler, Marta Müller and Sebi Benz, Dominique Rohner, Rico. They were all role models for me. Yeah, I also traveled with them a lot. And I learned a mega, mega lot from them.
Did you take them as role models for your first trip to Brazil too? Because I mean, I think I've read all the names you just mentioned, or almost all of them, in connection with long-distance flights in Brazil.
Yes. Well, actually, I wanted to take a few months off. I wanted to take a few months off in 2020 to fly. And I wanted to start flying aggro. I wanted to go to Turkey. And then I found out that Dominique Rohner was going to Brazil to fly and kite. So I asked if I could go to Brazil with Dominique to learn how to fly there. And then he said, yes, you can come. And that's how I started flying in Brazil.
And that was an experience that was just beautiful.
But if I followed correctly, you stayed in Brazil for like four months, I think.
Exactly. So
much longer than any other Swiss pilot who says, I really want to fly deep into Brazil now. They might stay there for two or three weeks. You stayed for four months. What drove you to stay in Brazil for four months straight? And to basically go flying constantly?
Yes, it was also during the Covid period and I actually wanted to go to Colombia too. But the borders closed for Brazilians. And then I stayed in Brazil and flew, kited. And it was just a great sense of freedom because people there were freer and you didn't always have to wear that mask. And for me, it was the perfect place to enjoy the time.
So, you took time off from home, or took vacation, to do something like a sabbatical year or something, so that you could be traveling there for that long at all. Exactly. What is it like as a woman in Brazil, traveling around there alone for so long, for example?
It's not a problem. Really. Yes. I mean, I wouldn't go out alone in Fortaleza, in this capital city, in the evening. But in Satau, in these small villages or small towns, it's not a problem at all. The people are always very willing to help and they open the door, and you really feel very good there.
Could you already speak Portuguese when you went there? Or did you only end up learning it during those four months in Brazil?
No, I knew a bit of Spanish. I started speaking a little Spanish. And then I started learning Portuguese very quickly with apps and by talking to people there. And that went pretty fast.
Well, over these four months in Brazil, you've also come from all sorts of different places. Or did you also travel to different locations as the season developed? If someone were to ask you now, "Serena, I want to go to Brazil, where's the best place to go for a first-time trip to Brazil as a beginner?" What would you recommend?
So I've experienced many different structures this year. In the SU. There are many new structures. Yes, structures that the winch and retrieve suggest.
So winch and retrieval. Basically, it's organized in a way that you can book it. You get pulled up and you'll also be picked up if you land somewhere.
Yes, exactly. And I would recommend for people who have never been there to go with Fly with Andy in Kaiko. He offers one to three weeks. Winch and return trip and briefing. And he does it really well because every morning there is a briefing at the launch site. And the organization, the logistics, are really great. For people who have never flown there, I would fly with him. Because he also has a launch site that is only ten minutes away from the hotel. Yes. And I think Kaiko is one of the best places in Brazil to do long distance flights.
And are there also spots where you'd say, if someone doesn't want to do long-distance flights—meaning they don't just want to get blown far over the Sertão by the wind—where you'd say, if one wants to fly slightly larger local rounds, is there any place where you could still say it's worth it? It doesn't have to be a winch launch site, either.
Yes. So there is a launch site in Quijada. It's very famous. But the wind there can be quite strong. Sometimes up to 60 kilometers per hour. Oh wow. And that can be very dangerous. And in October it's already quite windy. So for someone who wants to get to know Brazil, I would recommend going to Quijada in November or December. And there are many, many pilots there who can help with the return flight. They would be happy to go pick up pilots and help out at the launch site and give good advice.
In that first season in Brazil you did, where you were there for four months, if you calculate that over the whole year, I think you reached 10,000 route kilometers. Or almost 10,000. I read something like that somewhere. Is that a number that has any relevance for you? Or were you surprised yourself when you tallied it all up? Wow, that's like flying a quarter of the way around the earth.
Yes, exactly. I thought, wow, that's a lot. But I never thought it would be that much. And I didn't really pay attention to it. But yeah, in Brazil you can cover kilometers pretty quickly. Sometimes you can circle a thermal. Sometimes you can circle a thermal for ten kilometers.
Because you get pushed off course too much by the wind, you mean?
Yeah, exactly.
In that first year, you already did a whole series of long flights, and in some cases, significantly further than the flights you've done partly this year, even though you have much more experience now. What does it depend on, those days where you say everything works? And then there are days where you say, even I, now a much more experienced Brazil pilot, still can't manage to stay up there.
I think when I went to Brazil for the first time, I didn't have any goals, like kilometer goals. I just took every thermal and flew slowly. And this year, I had this dream of 500 kilometers. And I flew many flights way too fast. And sometimes I didn't. Even with the thermals I encountered, I'd say, no, I'm not taking it, it's not that good. And then I was also on the ground pretty quickly.
So, the classic thing you tell a beginner is: if you have a thermal, stay in it and work it out until the end. But if you want to fly 500 kilometers, you also have to be able to say, no, there's a 3-meter-per-second thermal over there, but this one is only 1.5. So I have to fly on quickly to get to the 3 meters per second or 5 meters per second thermals. To make it go faster. Exactly. With the trade-off that you can then eventually stand on the ground significantly faster. Yes.
On those flights where you flew those 470 kilometers, what was suddenly different about them?
Well, I was lucky that there were clouds for pretty much the whole day and the wind was also quite strong. On one of those two flights, my vario announced that I had 48 knots for maybe 5 or 10 minutes in the morning. And the wind was almost constant, 30 kilometers per hour all day. And that also helped to fly fast.
Is that like the ideal you're looking for there, a 30 kilometer wind?
If you want to fly far, yes. I think 30 is perfect.
Because the thermals aren't so shredded yet and you make good overall progress.
Yes. But I think 35 to 40 is good. I mean, very good.
After that first season in Brazil, where you flew so far, even with only an ENB glider back then, did you actually feel like the queen of the skies?
No. No, I just absolutely loved flying with those clouds. I didn't have any real goals. I just wanted to fly.
But then at the end of this season, that accident you mentioned earlier happened, which really called a lot of things into question. What actually happened there?
I went on a bivouac tour. For four or five days. In Graubünden and Ticino, in Switzerland. And on the last day, I flew for maybe three hours and was a bit tired and thought, yeah, I'm going to land. Now, I want to get back home. And then there was a valley where there was no wind. And I flew over this valley. And thought, I'll choose a good landing field. It was a large field with grass. And as I got lower, I saw, yeah, the trees, they were moving like crazy.
But there's no wind in this valley. I thought, yeah, why are the trees moving so much there? Then I thought, yeah, it's definitely a thermal. So I was already pretty low. And I landed there. Well, I wanted to land there. And I had a huge destroyer 20 meters above the ground. I don't know what happened. Because I had a blackout for, I think, five, ten seconds. I don't know exactly. Because I only remember landing on my two feet.
And then people came over. And I told these people, yeah, there was a dust devil. But I don't know exactly what happened.
But you're assuming it was probably a dust devil that broke loose there and then tossed you around pretty badly during your landing.
Yeah, could be, yeah.
But you landed on your feet, you're saying?
On my two legs, yes. I noticed immediately that my leg was broken. My back was broken. Because I had a lot of pain. And yes, then I had to be in the hospital in Ticino for two weeks. And then, yes, I had two vertebrae in my back that were broken. One quite severely. Because I also lost the sensation in my legs. I lost my legs a bit.
The feeling in the legs. Yes, that
The feeling, exactly. One leg, I had almost no feeling left. And I couldn't move my foot anymore.
And I also broke my shin and the small bone. I don't know what it's called.
And I asked myself many questions. Maybe I won't be able to walk anymore. If I can't feel my legs anymore, well, one leg anymore. I had surgery on my back and legs. And then I was in a rehab clinic in Valais for a few months. And that's where I relearned to walk.
But yeah, it was pretty difficult. Because there were so many questions about whether I'd be able to walk again or not. But I knew I wanted to fly again.
Even though flying basically landed you this accident, the pain, and this poor prognosis in the first place, in a way.
I thought I wouldn't recommend flying to my friend. Because I was so afraid of something like that happening to someone else. But I knew I wanted to fly again. Maybe in a wheelchair. And yes, it scares me. Flying is just so much. I wasn't ready to stop.
And after eight months, I was able to take my first flight again. I did a tandem flight with Kriegel. Because I couldn't run yet. And Kriegel suggested doing a flight with him. And that was one of the most beautiful moments of my life. That feeling again. To live, to fly.
It's interesting that you say, to live, to fly. So for you, flying is living?
For the moment, I can't imagine my life without flying. Because it gives me so much. And so much freedom. And freedom.
Yes.
How did this accident change your aviation perspective, your ambitions, your goals, and your attitude toward flying?
So, when I started flying again.
When I started flying again.
When
when I started flying again. But everyone understands it.
When I started flying again, it was pretty difficult. Because I was very scared. And I actually wanted to fly again like I used to before the accident. But I realized it's not possible. I'm just way too scared.
And I started flying in the Jura again. Where it's a bit easier. I mean, mentally easier. Maybe there are calmer conditions too. But sometimes I wanted to fly all day and it didn't work. Because I was too afraid of the turbulence. And I had to land because I wasn't having fun. I was too afraid. That was pretty difficult. Because I actually wanted to fly all day. And just doing small flights wasn't enough for me. I wanted to fly for a long time.
What do you experience when you feel a fear that you can't push away? But you notice that this fear is basically preventing you from realizing your own dream. So do you then develop a hatred towards the fear? Or what does something like that feel like?
Yes, I was pretty angry. I wanted this fear to go away. And I didn't know what to do. And then I thought, maybe I need to do psychotherapy. And I also started hypnosis. And that already helped me work on this fear. And to make this fear less big.
If you're flying for 10 hours again today, I mean, you must have somehow overcome this fear, maybe not completely, but largely. Out of the different things you've tried or done—psychotherapy, hypnosis therapy—is there anything where you'd say there was a moment like a breakthrough? A moment where you noticed that something changed in your head or in your feelings? And if there was, what was that moment?
I think it's come gradually. And I think I have less fear every year. But I know that the accident still affects me. Because in the air, when it's turbulent, I still get quite scared. I don't do competitions either, because I don't feel like pushing myself in turbulent air.
I just want to feel comfortable in the air most of the time. And sometimes in competitions, you have to fly in places where you don't really want to fly. And yeah.
But that means you're actually saying that time heals this wound. Or that time dulls the fear. Also by going back out and flying again and again and then slowly realizing, hey, okay, I'm still pretty much safe. So this is something I can handle. And then you slowly moved forward.
Yes, time and also a lot of ground handling. That helped me a lot, playing with the glider on the ground a lot.
To what extent does ground handling help? Or did ground handling help you push back the fear?
Because if you can hold a glider well on the ground in turbulent air, then you can also think, like I told myself, yes, you can hold the glider well on the ground. Why couldn't you hold the glider well in the air? And I think that helped me too. Mentally.
Okay, so you also went out for ground handling in more turbulent, let's say, somewhat windy conditions and slowly worked your way up to saying, okay, I can handle this too. Even with this strong wind and my glider dancing around up there. But I can control it. So if I can do it on the ground, I can do it in the air too.
Yes, exactly. I've done ground handling in many different conditions. And that helped me. It gave me confidence.
What I noticed is, I looked through your wings a bit. And the first flight you did solo—at least in XContest, it's set as a solo flight—you did that right away with an ENC glider.
I think it was an Ozone Alpina back then.
Ah, after the accident. The
first flight after your accident. That's at least also in the XContest as a comment. Like, hey, yeah, wow, great, my first flight and finally back again and so on. But you did that with an Alpina, so a C-glider. I was wondering, if I were to come out of an accident scenario like that—and I'm out of rehab or something—I would probably say for myself, I'll start out very low-key. I'll just take the simplest glider I can get and go flying with that. You went straight out flying with an Alpina. What was the idea behind that?
Ah, that's a good question now. What was the idea? Um. Hm. I think I had already spent so many hours under a C-glider and felt comfortable. And I had already tested this Alpina before the accident. And I had a good feeling with this glider, and that's why I bought it. But maybe I would have made more progress with a C-glider. A B-glider. Gained more confidence. Yes.
But especially when you mention fear and the turbulence and stuff like that, then maybe a simpler glider would have been a bit more reassuring at first.
Yeah. I think if I'd known I'd be so scared, I would have taken a B-glider.
But I didn't know I would be so scared.
Well, you also fly in the Alps and you fly long distances in the Alps. If you fly routes in the Alps and compare that to flying routes in Brazil, what scares you more or where do you feel the fear more? Is it the rugged terrain, which you might also see in Switzerland?
Or is it just the basic turbulence, and it doesn't matter whether you're flying in Switzerland or Brazil?
I think that's the terrain in the Alps. Because you're often closer to the ground, to the mountains. In Brazil, you're rarely below 500 meters from the ground and everything is flat.
Well, for me, there are many, also many landing options. No lee. It is
Is that also something that appeals to you, going to Brazil again and again? To say, I actually feel at home there, I can let my flying skills run wild and I feel pretty safe as well?
Yes, exactly. But there's also thirst in Brazil.
So, dust devils?
Dust devils. And I'm mega scared of these dust devils. Because sometimes they can come very quickly and you're close to the ground. And sometimes there's no way to get away. I've already seen an accident video of a pilot who wanted to land. And he was maybe 10 or 20 meters above the ground. And a dust devil came and he had a pretty serious accident.
One side, I think that was just really bad luck. There aren't that many dust devils in Brazil either. And I hope I never have to land in a dust devil again.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that it turns out that way.
Yeah, that's the only thing that really scares me about Brazil.
Your goal in Brazil is also those 500 kilometers. I can see that from your description. From last season, when you wrote on the WhatsApp channel, it was always like, yeah, okay, the 500 kilometers haven't been reached yet. What is so appealing about that 500-kilometer mark? Because on the other hand, you say you just want to fly for as long as possible. And if you say you'd start at half past five or whatever, or at six, and then you fly until sunset in the evening. And depending on the wind, on one day you might manage 450 kilometers. And on the other day, where the wind is just a bit stronger, then you might manage 500 kilometers.
But the flight distance you're achieving is exactly the same.
Yeah, totally.
In the end, you were in the air for ten hours or something, or eleven hours. Why is that mileage value still so important then?
Maybe because it also gives me a goal. Yes. And more to learn, more to analyze, and to get better.
But is 500 kilometers really better? No. Because in the end, it's probably just the external conditions on that day. Exactly. Everything was right regarding the wind or whatever. The day before, everything was just right for 450. But in terms of flight technique, you did exactly the same thing.
Yeah, exactly. I mean
you're not safe at 500 kilometers. You
are the
a better pilot than with 450. No. Why is this brand still so important?
Yes, I think it's because it's a goal to get better.
But what's better about that? Only on paper, right?
No, no. To become a better pilot. Because for five, yeah, like you say, it depends on the conditions. But you have to fly pretty fast to do 500. And analyze the clouds well, analyze the air mass, center the thermals well. And for me, there's a goal, to learn even more.
If you had had, on average, three kilometers more of wind during that 470-kilometer flight you did this year, then in ten hours you would have covered 30 kilometers more and would have already flown 500 kilometers. Yes. But the flight would have been the same. Why would you be better then?
Yes, I think with three kilometers of wind, it might not have been enough.
So getting better means you have to be able to handle even more wind and still find the thermals even with stronger drift.
Mhm. But I, yes. I love it. Always learning and analyzing the air better. And I think, when I have goals like that, it also helps me stay motivated to get better and not just say, I'll maybe turn this thermal, I'll see where the center is and maybe I'll go left and then right and take a little stroll.
Would you also change the glider again to manage the 500 kilometers? So, until now, you've been flying an ENC, and this season you flew a Merlin from Sky. Would you say, ah, the chance of reaching 500 kilometers is maybe with a D-glider or maybe even a CCC competition glider, the kind people fly who really, really want to fly far in Sartau, so that I might have the chance to go even further? Would that be an incentive for you to upgrade to that?
Yeah, no. I don't want to do those 500 kilometers anymore. I want to do the 500 kilometers with this C-glider.
Sure, it would be easier with a D or CCC glider, but for the moment I don't feel like switching. I feel good with my glider and wouldn't trade it.
That means the goal is already to cover the 500 kilometers with an ENC. That's the idea of progress for you. Exactly.
When flying in Brazil, there's another feat people want to point out that's being achieved. The drivers who pick you up—so you have one, I think his name is Marcio, I don't know, is that your private driver? At least it was always described as, Marcio picked me up, Marcio picked me up, and stuff like that. As if you have someone who's always following you around. If you're flying for ten hours now, flying under 470 kilometers, he has to drive behind you for ten hours too, or maybe he leaves two hours later, but he still drives behind you for many, many hours.
That's quite an achievement too. Is that recognized in any way?
Yeah, totally. So, yeah, Marcio, he's a pilot who lives in Quixada and we're actually friends, and he's super happy to do it because he loves, I mean, he loves flying, but he doesn't want to fly if it's too thermal, and he loves this, this month in October in Satau, following the pilots, and yeah, if he flies all day, flies, drives, then yeah, we meet in the evening and we go to a good restaurant and we sleep somewhere near where I landed.
And then we go the next day, the day after
back by car. When you're up in the air, do you have radio? I mean, are you in contact, or is he just tracking you via satellite and knows where you are?
Sometimes I send him photos from the flight while in the air, but we don't talk over the radio, no.
I mean, but when you're up in the air, flying up there? You also think about him sometimes and know there's someone who's basically following me now, right under me, just driving along behind.
Yes, exactly. Sometimes I look, maybe the car is somewhere down there. I look at the road, but in my case, it's hard to spot.
Don't you have a tracker, like live tracking, so that you can also see on your Vario where Marcio is right now?
No, but I know that some, some drivers do that. They have X-Track with live tracking turned on. And the pilots know where the drivers are.
When you fly that far and you know someone is driving behind your flight the whole time, does that ever give you a guilty conscience too?
Yeah, definitely. Because it's a lot of gas, and sometimes I do feel bad about it. But hitchhiking or traveling? I mean, getting back by bus is pretty complicated in Brazil. It can take a few days to get back.
When you were in Brazil in 2021, for those four months or so, did you always have a driver? Or were there situations where you went flying and didn't have a ride back, and then had to take a hitchhike, a bus, or something else?
So in São Paulo, I always had a driver. Mhm. And then I was a bit later, in January in Governador, because it's a bit more in the south. And you don't need a driver there because there are more roads, more people. It's easier to get back and you don't fly as far.
On that return trip, someone once told me that actually the most dangerous part of flying in Brazil is the return journey.
Well, it depends on the drivers. Because some drivers, they go like 160. 160? At night. Yes. On sand tracks? No, there are plenty of roads. But sometimes there are animals, cows or horses or donkeys next to the road, and potholes in the road. And that can be pretty dangerous.
Since you mentioned being afraid of flying, have you ever been afraid that you'd say,
...that driving back sometimes, where you might go into the night—I mean, if you haven't already flown for 10 hours and you're saying you'll stay where you are, but it's maybe later and you say, "Yeah, now we're driving back, then maybe I can still take off tomorrow morning." But then you're driving into the night because it gets dark by 6, and then you're driving through the night on roads where maybe at some point a deer jumps out from the bushes or whatever animal gets out onto the road. No. Are you scared of that too?
No, well, I was lucky that the friends who drove for me always drove very calmly, so I wasn't scared at night.
And you're also reassuring for them and say, better drive slower.
Yes, exactly.
Finally, I want to briefly touch on another topic. In 2020, which was still relatively early in your career—you started in 2018—you joined Kriegel's X-Alps Academy and were accepted. How did that happen?
So I felt like doing a Hikenfly competition and I just signed up for the Eiger Tour, which was a 4-day race in the Bernese Alps, and yeah, I had never done a Hikenfly competition before and I didn't know what I was actually supposed to do there. And I was there with a huge backpack, about 18 kilos,
two batteries, a poncho, a sleeping bag, a mat, and I was there and I met some friends and they said, what do you have in your backpack? That's so heavy, and then I took out a lot of stuff and then I had a hikefly. That was a backpack that was a bit lighter.
17 kilos. And I...
did this competition, but actually only to live some adventures. Really, just to discover a new area, and I had so much fun. And yeah, there, I don't know anymore how it was. I think I met Bernhard Zenn.
Or Weißkriegel. And yeah, they asked me if I'd be motivated to come to this X-Health Academy. And I think they thought, this woman, she's crazy.
She's a bit crazy, she's coming in with 18 kilos, wants to do the Eiger tour, flying from hut to hut for four days or something like that, and is dragging herself along. She must be very motivated.
Exactly, they saw that I'm super motivated. And yeah, I thought, wow, this is a huge stroke of luck. But I was also scared. Like, what am I going to do in this group? And then I thought, yeah, I'll give it a try and see how it goes. And then I discovered that this group is actually mega, mega cool. And there was no pressure. And I learned so much. And it was so much fun. And yeah, I thank Kriegel for giving me this chance to develop there.
Did you ever have a thought where you said, maybe I could participate in the X-Alps at some point?
Yes, that was a dream that grew on me when I joined that X-Health Academy group. But then I was out of it quickly because I had that accident. And then it was clear, I'm never going to do this X-Alps because I'm mentally too weak now, and physically too. I don't think I could push myself like that for ten or twelve days, running on the ground.
But otherwise, there's no physical, debilitating damage left from the accident where you'd say you can't do certain sports anymore; you can actually do pretty much everything.
I could do everything right now, yes. But I also have to be careful because my body gives me signals. Sometimes I do a bit too much and I have to listen. I can't train very hard and push myself too much. There's a limit that I should respect.
You just said that X-Alps was already a dream back then, but it was taken away by the accident. What is your dream today?
My dream is really to not have any more accidents and to keep flying until I'm too old.
Yeah, until I'm old.
So you've still got a few decades ahead of you, I'd say. I think you're 32 now, right?
Yes, exactly.
Then I'll just say, you'll definitely make it until 72, maybe even 82. Oh, that's quite a lot of time. Hopefully. You'll probably also hit that 500 at some point during that time, and even if it's at 65, you'll be the oldest 500-kilometer pilot in the world.
I definitely wish you lots of fun, lots of success with it, and above all, stay healthy, stay safe, and just enjoy the flying. Thank you, Serena, for sharing.
Yes, thank you very much. To you too.
In the show notes for this episode with Serena Ronki, you'll find further links to some of her impressive flights. If you want to hear even more inspiring stories from the world of paragliding, I recommend two steps. First, subscribe to Podz-Glidz on your preferred podcatcher so you don't miss an episode. And second, become a supporter of my work. On my Gleitschirm-Blog www.Lu-Glidz.blogspot.com, you'll find all the necessary information and links under the "Support" section on how you can continue to provide a basis for this project with a voluntary financial contribution, large or small. I want to thank all my supporters. Start early, land late, fly far. But stay safe.
See you soon, your Lucian.