At first glance, they obviously have nothing in common, but when you compare it to cross-country flying, there are certain things I've basically adopted from my chess practice. Obviously, one thing is for sure: in chess, you always think ahead, you look further forward and compare different options, and then you try to choose the best one. And in cross-country flying, you also have to—well, I think it's helpful if you plan a bit further ahead than just where you are right now. You might think to yourself, "Should I fly through there or through there?" and then you can consider which option is better and choose the better one.
Podz-Glidz, the Lu-Glidz podcast. Stories from the cosmos of paragliding. Today with Philipp Aeschbach. And I am Lucian Haas. What does chess have to do with paragliding cross-country? At first glance, not much. On one side, a strategic board game with fixed rules. On the other, free movement in the middle of nature's chaos. But if you look closer, you can discover some parallels. Especially if you ask someone who knows both well. May I introduce? Philipp Aeschbach. The 33-year-old Swiss man played competitive chess for years.
Then he discovered paragliding and fell in love with the hobby. Today, he spends more hours in the air than at the chessboard. Even a lot of hours. It was almost 600 in 2025, and not much less in previous years. In this episode of Podz-Glidz, Philipp Aeschbach talks about his two great passions. It also covers the extent to which chess helped him master XC flying so successfully. In 2025, for example, he flew at least one hundred-kilometer flight in Switzerland in 11 out of 12 months. That means even in the dead of winter.
By the way, I can only present these kinds of special conversations in Podz-Glidz because there are supporters who financially support my work on the podcast and blog. Join in too. You can find all the necessary information about this in the Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz, specifically on the Fördern page.
Philipp, have you ever flown a hundred in Switzerland in December?
Unfortunately, not yet. But I tried it a bit this month, but it wasn't enough. What was your next flight? I mean, how far did you manage in December? Yes, depending on how you count, a bit over 60 kilometers. So if you count it as a triangle or as a free distance with turning points, there's a slightly different number of kilometers. About 60? But that's not even the record. I think the record is already over 70 in Switzerland. By Stefanie Westerhuis.
Do you think a hundred in December in Switzerland is possible?
Yeah, well, I wasn't so sure before. But now I'm actually pretty sure it's possible. In Valais, like Fiesch, or maybe somewhere in Ticino in the Southern Alps. But of course, you need the perfect day.
I mean, the flight time available in December is relatively short. And that includes the thermal time or whatever. Based on your experience, when can you even take off in December such that you could say, I might get a connection that would allow me to actually manage a cross-country flight in the end?
Yes, well, I think flight times of well over 4 hours are possible. 4.5 or 5 would probably be very tight; everything would have to line up. But in Fiesch, for example, on good days, you can probably start before 11:00. I actually started before 11:00 recently. The other day, somehow on December 19th. And it worked well. Yes, usually you can start sometime between 11:00 and 11:30. And then, yeah, sometime around 3:00, the thermals are usually winding down. But you actually already have 4 hours, or even a bit more. So you'd have to fly at an average of about 25 km/h. Which often isn't possible in December because the thermals are just weak and sluggish.
But there are also days when the gradient is very good from the start, you can actually fly relatively fast. And in those cases, I do think it's possible.
Now, the sun sits much, much lower in December than it does in May, for example, or something like that. That means maybe other areas are thermally active. When you choose your routes in December, do you fly a bit differently?
Yes, well, in winter and actually also in spring, there's always a lot of snow. Especially at high altitudes. But the forests are actually—well, the forests have to be snow-free. Otherwise, it's not possible anyway. That means, for it to even work in winter, you naturally need the right snow conditions. But the forests, so in the lower elevations, are snow-free and generate good thermals. But also in spring and summer. So I think the forests are generally probably the best source of thermals in the Alps as a rule. And yeah, of course, you do fly, you fly more like the spring line and not so much the summer line. Because in summer, there's no snow up there.
And then you can head towards the big mountains. Of course, that's not possible if there's a lot of snow.
If you look at the XContest, you can see that you've flown a hundred in every month of 2025, well, except for this December, you've flown a hundred in every month. Was that a stated goal of yours?
No, that wasn't a goal. It just happened that way. So in January, yeah, that was nice. That was a beautiful day in Valais. That was enough for the first hundred, quite early in the year. And then again in February. But in February, it's usually always possible anyway. And then it was just the normal season. I usually fly hundreds or more anyway. And then comes October and November, where I don't necessarily fly 100. But this October, there were several beautiful, very beautiful flying days.
And then comes October, November, where I don't necessarily fly 100s as a rule. And then there's November. November as a rule is also basically out of season, yeah, it's hardly possible to fly 100s anymore or only very rarely. But I actually managed two 100s this year. On a very nice weekend. And then you suddenly look back and see you've actually flown a 100 every month in Switzerland. It could also maybe happen a bit in December. Yeah, and I did try in December, but it just wasn't enough this year. How
How many flights over 100 kilometers were there in total that year?
Yes, over 50. I mean, I think it depends on how you count—if you take a 98km triangle, over three turn points, it might be over 100. But in the World League XContest, there are those where they are tallied. I think there were about 54 or something in the 2025 season.
There's an American, Ariel Slatkowski. There's an American, Ariel Slatkowski. He managed more than 100 hundreds in the last XContest season, so XContest 2025. However, he didn't just fly that in Switzerland, but all over the world. Would something like that be a project to your taste?
So, not necessarily forcing it like that.
Of course, you do a lot more hundreds if you travel to the right places in the winter. He did a lot in the Himalayas, so he did Birre in India and then in Colombia. And then he was also in the Alps. But for me, it would be more interesting to push how many you can actually do in Switzerland. That would be more my taste.
Is that your project for 2026?
So, not specifically. I fly a lot anyway and I want to fly a lot, I enjoy it. And then the hundreds, they just happen relatively automatically.
You say you fly a lot. I mean, even when you look at the XContest again and see how many flights, but especially how many flight hours add up, you have an incredible amount when you add it all up. How many did you reach last year, or not last year, but now in 2025?
Yeah, they're not quite 600 yet, something like 589 or so.
589? Yes. That
that means, calculated over the year, 365 days, you end up with an average of about 1.6 flight hours. How much will that be, roughly? I mean, per day?
Yeah, I don't fly every day, of course. In recent years, I've flown between 120 and 150 days a year. And then, on average, maybe three to four hours per flight day or something. Including the winter flights, which are shorter. And of course, in the summer—so most of the flight time comes from the summer months. Or rather, spring, just from the main season. So when you can fly for eight, nine, or ten hours in one day, it adds up quickly.
How do you manage to go flying that much? I mean, if you look at it, there are paragliding pros. I think I heard Kriegel Maurer say it somewhere in another podcast the other day, where he said, yeah, this year he reached about 300 hours. Now you basically have double that. How do you manage something like that?
Yeah, well, obviously, you have to set priorities, I'd say. Especially. You also need a lot of free time just to be able to go flying for over 100 days. That's a lot. You just have to prioritize it. And then, what I naturally do to get so many flight hours is, on the days that I go flying, I try to fly routes for as long as possible. And I travel to these places where I think I can fly the best. So, someone who already lives somewhere where they can, I mean, fly directly, might just go local. And then on certain days, it's just not that great. And then you only fly for a short time or not at all. And I try to get the most out of my flying days.
But now you're not a paragliding pro yourself. You have another job.
Yeah. I'm now employed 50 percent with relatively flexible working hours. And in the past, I once didn't work for a year. And I just... I only went paragliding. So, once I started paragliding. But yeah, it's not like I'm making money from paragliding now, yeah.
When did you start paragliding? Yeah, that was in 2020. After Corona, so I actually only started paragliding in the autumn, yeah.
Also because of Corona? Because you, were you looking for something where you could somehow get out of the office?
get out of the office or something? Yeah. Probably not, I mean not directly because of Corona. But what actually happened is, well, it was the first Corona wave with home office and everything was closed. And then in the summer of 2020, you could go out a bit again. And that's when I got into kitesurfing. That was the first time I had a small trainer kite in my hands. I had so much fun with it. I didn't actually know anything else about paragliding. And then I had this feeling. Now I'm learning kitesurfing. You can do that in Switzerland on the lakes too. Especially in the summer, I did a course in August. Or yeah, I think it was August, in the valley wind. But I didn't really get the hang of it.
And then autumn slowly rolled in, and it gets harder anyway with kitesurfing in Switzerland, especially as a beginner. And then somehow I came across paragliding, I mean paragliding, through that. And then I signed up for a taster course.
And then the virus got you. Not the coronavirus, obviously, but the paragliding virus.
Yeah, you could say that, yeah. Well, not really at first. Actually, it was only when I, well, I was on the paraglider, like on the practice slope for a bit. Up and down a few times and stuff like that. That was cool. And the first high-altitude flights, those were also great. I don't remember the exact timeline now, but at some point I discovered x Contests. In the selection. In the selection, of course. And then I looked at it and thought, wow, you can fly that far. How is that even possible? And since then, I haven't been able to let it go.
And that was—so you said you started with this paraglider course in the autumn. Then winter probably came. Was that the winter where you spent a whole winter hanging out in front of XContests, looking at all the flights listed there, where you can fly all over the place and so on?
Yes, partly for sure, yeah. Yes, partly for sure, yeah. Of course, you do training flights in Switzerland in the winter. There aren't any thermals, but you can go up and down just fine. It's actually good for practice. So I did practice in the winter too. But yeah, I was at home a lot and looked around in XContest a bit. But yeah, at that point I couldn't really understand it yet, of course, because I had no reference. I mean, I also just read a lot of paragliding material in general. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I also read the standard stuff you learn in training. Meteorology, aviation law, and all that stuff you just have to know.
But then, as far as I can see, once you had your license, you really took off quite quickly, at least in terms of hours. I think if I look at 2022, you were still flying a B-glider back then, and you had already reached 450 flight hours.
Yeah. So in that year, I didn't work at all. That's why I had a bit more time. I actually had more time to fly than I do this year, but I did fewer flight hours. You can tell I wasn't as good back then as I am now. But it actually started quite quickly. Right after the Brevet, my focus was always on cross-country flying. But in that first year in '21—I got the Brevet in '21—I wasn't really such an excessive cross-country pilot yet. I was even still out with the school glider. But I got my first experiences. And then it was also for personal reasons. I moved from Zurich to Ostermundigen to be with my girlfriend and at the same time I also quit my job back then.
and then took a sabbatical for paragliding. Then in '22 I had a lot of time. And that's the year where I learned a lot because I was able to fly a lot. Yeah.
You moved in with your girlfriend, but you also went flying a lot. What did she say? She's very...
understanding. Does she fly too? No, no. But we met just before I started paragliding. I already knew back then—it was after kitesurfing, but before paragliding in 2020, also after the first Corona wave. And I remember telling her back then, with kitesurfing, I think it's going to change my life.
So she just noticed it from the very beginning and was always very open to it.
If someone came up to you and diagnosed you, Philipp, saying you're addicted to flying, would you accept that as a diagnosis or would you say, no, that's not true?
Yes, definitely. Well, it was even worse back then than it is now, but I'm actually still addicted. But I'm trying—the goal isn't to be addicted, though.
Addiction has a lot to do with having that craving. So if you don't get it, you eventually start shaking or something. Your soul burns for it. How does that manifest for you when you can't go flying?
Yeah, exactly. So that's always been the case, especially back in the day, it was actually quite critical at times. I mean, it was just a bad mood or something. When I know, it's like, it's a good day for flying, but for some reason I can't, then I'd be in a pretty bad mood. I think by now, hopefully, I'm not quite as addicted as I was before; I can handle it better, let's say. Because I know other good flying days will come where I can go. But especially in those first few years, I always had this craving to fly whenever it was possible. And when I knew I couldn't, for some reason, I'd sometimes already be a bit in a bad mood.
What is it that draws you up into the air like that?
Yeah, it's just an incredible fascination. I mean, it's actually really hard to put into words right now. But yeah, flying is just an incredible feeling and a very exciting activity. It's just a lot of fun, and there's a certain addiction to it.
Is it like, when you've flown for the day and you land, that you've basically satisfied the craving for a moment? Or do you land and think, maybe if I'd landed a bit earlier, how could I get back up the mountain right away so I could be back in the air immediately?
Yeah, so if I've been flying all day and I've landed, I'm already happy and say, that's enough for now. Of course, if the weather turns good again quickly, I want to fly again. But yeah, if you fly on a good day, that's already great. If you have to land early on a good flying day, you always have that brief feeling,
...now I could fly some more, and so on. I know that feeling, of course. And yeah, if it's possible, I do it every now and then, I'll go up again. So if I start early, get caught in some downdrafts somewhere and have to land, and there's a good opportunity to get back to a decent launch site, then I'll go up again. And that's still possible in many places in Switzerland.
From an addiction standpoint, are you a flight-time maximizer? One could assume given the mass of flight hours you're racking up. Or are you also a flight-distance maximizer? I mean, what's actually more important to you today? Being in the air for a long time, or ultimately the number that comes out at the end? Although, often when you're in the air for a long time, the kilometer count is naturally large too if you're doing cross-country. But what's so important? What appeals to you more or what gives you more satisfaction in the end? Saying I reached the higher distance number or that I was in the air for an hour longer, or something like that?
Yes, well, both basically. In the past, I was certainly more focused on flying for as long as possible, so accumulating a lot of flight hours. Nowadays, I'm more about flying efficiently—getting there fast and far, in that sense. But like you said, if you don't fly all day, you won't get as far. So, if you want to maximize the distance, you have to fly fast, first, but also fly for a long time, otherwise you'll never get the maximum out of it. But it's always drawn me in—I always try to maximize in that sense, in terms of efficiency and, yeah, what's possible in a day and getting as close to that as possible.
That's actually the goal.
What do you think is the maximum possible distance someone could cover in Switzerland with the current equipment?
Yes, over 400, of course. I mean, Benni Kählin has already flown 400 kilometers twice. Yes, I think you'd need some amazing days, but then you could now—I mean, you could probably—the flat 400-kilometer triangle in Valais is certainly possible. The record there is already 369, and they were back too early. So, on an absolute hammer day, 400 is probably possible. For an FAI triangle, I think 400 is hardly possible. But yeah, the record there is still 343. But there's definitely more. I mean, in Switzerland, in France they're already flying over 350.
So, something a bit more than what's already been flown is certainly still possible.
When I listen to you, I notice you have quite a lot of numbers in your head. Also, from the others, it's very strategically oriented. You used to play chess very intensively, including tournament chess. Did you basically, let's say first of all, keep a log of how many hours you sat at the board back then per year, before you were paragliding? No, well
I never counted the hours when it came to chess.
That probably doesn't matter much with paragliding either, but with chess, of course, you can very easily train for many more hours, let's say, or spend more time on it, because you're not tied to the weather. You can just do two or three hours of chess every evening, so you quickly rack up a lot of hours. But I never counted them.
Were you similarly addicted to chess back then as you are to flying today?
Yeah, in phases, for sure. I mean, I've been playing chess since I was a kid. My father taught me when I was little. And then I started competitive chess around 12 or 13. But I wasn't particularly ambitious back then. I just played at the club, a tournament every now and then. And then at some point, there was this phase where I played chess very intensely and also, yeah, I'd say I developed a certain obsession.
But that's exactly it, yeah, you can work on it very well. Yeah, you can just work on it every day. Because you can, yeah, you can do it at home, you can do it on the go with a chess book, or you can, yeah, you can always deal with the subject whenever you really want to.
Do chess and flying have anything in common in terms of approach, from your perspective and your experience?
Or what? At first glance, they obviously have nothing in common. But if you compare it to cross-country flying, there are certain things I've basically taken over from my chess practice. For example, I think the most obvious thing is that in chess you always think ahead, you think further and compare different options and then try to choose the best one. And in cross-country flying, you also have to—I think it's helpful—plan a bit further than just where you are right now. You might think to yourself, should I fly through there or through there? And then you can consider which option is better and choose the better one. Or what you always have to do in chess is, you have to be very
...watch out for what the opponent can do. So what are the risks, actually, in terms of paragliding? What can go wrong? You always have to keep that in mind when playing chess, because if you underestimate your opponent's possibilities, then, well, then something will go wrong for yourself. Now, in paragliding, we don't have an opponent, but you still just have to keep an eye on the risks a bit. Especially as a beginner, I think you can do that, it's helpful. And then there are other points as well. For example, when playing chess, you simply learn to maintain concentration over a longer period of time.
That's similar again with long-distance flights.
Or what you always have when playing chess—it's actually about making decisions when playing chess, right? And also under time pressure or sometimes, let's say, psychological pressure. And then in paragliding, you also always have to make good decisions. That's actually the core of it.
You just said that in paragliding you don't have an opponent. Is that really true? I mean, you could also say maybe opponents that change from day to day. There are days, let's say, where I have strong wind and I know I'll have strong lee effects or something else. I have to adapt my strategy to that and say, okay, I must not be beaten by this opponent, the strong wind. I don't want to be pushed down somewhere where I end up on the ground, but I have to look, okay, the opponent doesn't have a weak point in this case, but where I can say, that's the point where I develop my strength accordingly. Isn't that also a way of thinking where you say, really strategically against the other and maybe sometimes working with the other accordingly?
Yes, well, you can, of course you can put it that way and it's true. So, you could basically frame nature as an opponent, but in paragliding, it's actually more about working with it, not against it. But of course, risks like lee situations or over-development or whatever, you have to include those in the strategic planning. That's for sure, yes. Now, it is
Yeah, in chess, you sit at the board with an opponent, you play the game, and it develops in that moment.
And in that moment, you have to think very, very far ahead to be able to keep up with your opponent. With paragliding, if you look at it as a game and a strategic game, there are two strategic levels, let's say. There's the preparation, where you say, I'm not even in the air yet. That can be weeks in advance, where you say, I'm already planning routes. I know, okay, the mountains are always the same, they're there. The chessboard is always the same, too. But still, you never know how the opponent will position themselves. But you can already plan the corresponding long-term moves. Are you someone who also does a lot of this theoretical work, this preparation work at home? Or are you one of those who says, I'm going to the launch site and now I'll look at the chessboard of nature and just get started?
So, yeah, I'd say I'm similar to chess. Because in chess, you can also prepare a lot, a very, very lot. You can really prepare a lot in opening theory. Because in chess, the board is always the same. And there's a lot of knowledge you can acquire there. Just like with paragliding. And I'm actually only moderately interested in preparation when playing chess. But of course, I do a lot. Because playing chess at a certain level simply means that you have good preparation. That you have your openings under control, because otherwise you'll be outplayed. Or you'll simply have a major disadvantage. And I've also invested time in paragliding, especially during the winter months or in bad weather, to analyze other people's flights or think about routes—where it could go, when, and how, and so on.
That you're a bit prepared and don't get completely surprised by everything while in the air. Like...
What does that kind of preparation look like for you? So, if you say you're analyzing someone else's flight now, is it just a one-time thing where you pull it up in XContest and take a quick look at where they flew the longest? Or is it a really detailed analysis where you say, I'll import this flight into Google Earth now. I'll put a KK7 overlay map on top. Let me see where the thermals are there. I'll check the weather report for that day. What was the wind forecast like, or whatever else. So, do you go into it in very, very great detail? Or is it just a general overview of what his basic strategy was?
So both, depending on the case. I mean, I never need KK7, that's clear. But otherwise, why not? Yeah, I don't think it's actually that helpful. Because it just shows you where there are often thermals. But yeah, somehow, that's actually clear. Usually. But it also mainly shows you where people fly through. Not necessarily where the thermals are. Because there are also places with good thermals that might not be such a big hotspot on the KK7 map. Because simply, people rarely fly through there. But the thermals would be just as good there, right? Also good. You might not get there as easily, right? So I think that's why the KK7... I think it just doesn't help that much. To be honest. But to each their own.
But something I've definitely done, or do regularly, is looking at certain flights on Google Maps—uh, Google Maps, Google Earth—because then you can do a bit of 3D and stuff. That's a really nice visualization.
Something I've also done, though rather rarely, is searching for old weather data for flights. Just to get a bit of a sense of what the weather conditions were like.
That's always a bit of a problem because you have the old flights and you don't know what the weather was like back then. Because the weather is, of course, relevant for the flights. Yeah, sometimes I look at some archives to get a bit of a feel for the day. But usually not. What I often do, though, is just a quick overview. So, there are two things. There's the historical stuff, the flights from before my time, so to speak. And then there's what's happening now during the season. Or during the season, I know the weather roughly. I probably looked at the weather too. And then I can go through the flights relatively quickly in the evening and just take a look. Yeah. Then I have today's weather in my head.
Maybe I even flew it myself. So I'll do it the next day or something. I can quickly look at the flights, like the general route. And what actually interests me most are the spots where people got low. Or where it got exciting. Because if they're just flying straight way over the summit, then yeah, that's not very exciting. But whenever they got low somewhere or had a tricky spot, I'll take a closer look at that to get a bit of a feel for that place and that situation. That means,
Do you really scan through flights like that, when you say, "I flew today, now let me look at the other five big, long flights that were also done." And then you look at the altitude profile in XContest, so the flight altitude profile, and you see, "He came down low there. Let me zoom in on that. What was the problem there and how did he manage to get out of it?"
Absolutely, absolutely. And I actually do that almost every day during the season. Because I always have a connection to the weather, even when I'm not flying. And then you can compare the top flights. Sometimes I even go pretty far down to the ones that aren't the top flights. Or flights in other areas. Because usually, the biggest flights are all from the same area or more or less the same area. But yeah, that's an important analysis for me. On one hand for my own flights, but also for the flight day as a whole, so what the others flew.
If you were to calculate that... I don't know if you actually keep a record of that or anything, but you know, you've reached over 580 flight hours this year. How many hours of pre- and post-flight preparation are involved with that?
Yeah, I don't keep a record of that. But with the Meteor, you can invest a lot of time anyway.
Preparation for flights, but also in general. And as for the post-flight stuff, let's say the analysis. I usually do the analysis of my own flight relatively briefly, so quickly. I just go through the flight again, sort of visualizing it in 3D, and I'm always thinking about things. What did I do well? What might I have done poorly? Where were there mistakes, or what didn't I really understand? Just relatively briefly, let's say five to ten minutes, sometimes even less. And then, yeah, usually you're on your way home from the flight day, you have time to see a bit what the others flew. You're on public transport anyway. So you sit on the train and take a look. Exactly.
So sometimes I do that at home too. But roughly speaking, would you say you still fly more than you invest in preparation and post-flight analysis? Or does it pretty much balance out?
Yeah, I think it probably balances out in the end. Well, it depends on what you count as preparation and post-flight. So if I just read other paraglider-relevant information, like books or something, and if you count that too, then it definitely balances out. If you don't count all that, then maybe a bit more flying.
Well, you just said that you don't really need KK7. It's actually clear where the thermals are. How is that clear to you? I mean, I know many pilots who have a rough idea of that. But you're saying it's actually clear. So you seem to have a pretty precise idea of it.
Yeah, so personally I think the absolute most important thing for a cross-country pilot, or actually the decisive thing, is how good is the mental model of the atmosphere? I mean, who actually has the best idea of how the situation—the weather, the atmosphere—behaves? Because the person who has a more accurate model in their head simply flies better, because they fly to the right spot and it rises there, while the other person just flies around and hopes to fly into a thermal. So from that perspective, of course, on every flight day—you're actually always working on your own model of the atmosphere. You think about where it's rising, where it's sinking, where there's nothing to be had, and where it's going fast.
And then you always have it, you fly a lot—so I fly a lot—but with every flight you always have that feedback, that immediate feedback. You think, there's a thermal up ahead, and then you fly there and either there's one there or there isn't. And that's how you build up this mental model or improve it. It gets more and more accurate, I'd say, it should become. That would be the goal. And then, yeah, then my head tells me where the next thermal is. I don't need a KK7 map for that.
That means it works a bit like training an AI, where it always says, I learn from success. And you're always comparing, okay, I expect a thermal there, I catch the thermal there, then I know, okay, next time I might fly over a similar spot again and you say, I expect a thermal. No, then I didn't find it there. Then that might be weighted somewhat differently in your head strategically and you say, next time I'll think about the model a bit differently and fly over a different spot instead.
Yeah, well, I think that's generally how humans learn. There are different strategies for learning things, but if you have something where you get direct feedback, that's obviously very helpful for learning because then you can always—well, that actually happens automatically, but yeah, it's obviously good if you've already made a forecast while flying, instead of just flying around and basically letting yourself be surprised. Then you'll automatically build a model, in your subconscious, I'll say for now. But it's maybe not as efficient as when you deliberately make forecasts, so to speak, in the short term. I fly over there, and then it has three meters of lift, and then you fly over, and then you get the feedback, and then you can basically update your own model.
In a certain way, that's how it works.
With all these flights, with all the flight hours you're racking up, have you ever gotten bored while up in the air?
No, not really, because it's just,
So sometimes, of course, you can just relax and enjoy the view, but that's not boring either. And if you're not relaxing and enjoying it, then you're actually thinking—basically, what do I do next, why am I doing that, or how do I estimate... for me, a lot of time in the air is simply assessing the conditions. Like, how do I think the state of the atmosphere is? And I can do that all the time; it's never boring.
Are you a visual person? I mean, I imagine chess players looking at a board, glancing at it once, seeing a position, taking it in as a whole, and then having a relatively quick impression of what the position is like, where the strengths or weaknesses are. So, someone who is a very experienced chess player. And I could also imagine that a very experienced pilot sees a position that exists somewhere—the situation in the flight region where you currently are—you see a few clouds and some other stuff, and you can actually recognize the strength or weakness of a situation relatively quickly. Would you see it similarly?
Yes, I think so. In any case. But visually, yeah, I'm probably more of a visual person. But of course, in paragliding, we take it all in with our eyes, so we probably take in most of the information visually, but also a lot of other information that we feel through the wing and how the thermals feel and so on. But what's certain is that a good cross-country pilot grasps the situation much faster, or simply faster, but also more accurately. A beginner doesn't really understand what's going on in the atmosphere. And an experienced cross-country pilot has a much better idea. That's, I think, inevitably the case.
Regarding these routes you fly, you say you do a lot of preparation before and after. Does preparation also mean you sit at the computer and plan out routes, setting a whole series of waypoints that you can then load onto your instrument? Or are you someone who just has these routes in your head and says, okay, I have these different triangles I've thought about before that I can recall, just like how I as a chess pro have 50 openings in my head and could actually play them down relatively blindly, at least the first few moves there. Is that something where you'd say it's similar when flying?
Yeah, so I don't load waypoints into the device yet. Normally, I mean, I've never done that, let's say, for normal cross-country flying. But I do play around sometimes with ideas for triangles and stuff like that. Especially if you really want to fly triangles, it becomes very important to think about where the turn points need to be, to make sure it actually works out in the end.
I do do some preparation for that. But above all, it's a bit about thinking about which routes would be possible or could be possible. I do do that. But many of my flights are actually relatively freestyle, let's say. So the triangle ideas are really only relevant for the "hammer" days, because only on those days can you really fly some kind of huge triangle. On normal flying days, you might fly through somewhere, but it won't work to fly a huge triangle right now, due to weather conditions or whatever. And then I usually just fly around with very loose flight plans.
So I have an idea at the beginning of the flight, like maybe I'll fly through there or I could try that, but nothing exactly planned.
On May 2nd of this year, in 2025, you flew a one-way record from Fiche, 365 kilometers deep into Austria. Was that flight planned, or was it also freestyle? Like, I just take off and you go, "Oh, it keeps going, it keeps going, oh, there's the next little cloud over there, ah, I have to get to that one too, oh, oops, now I'm already across the border into Austria, well, okay, then I'll fly a bit further."
Yeah, so the flight was planned, but that's the beauty of it—I'd say that's what I like about these one-way flights, that you don't have to plan it all that precisely. You just fly as far as you can. But I remember, on the way there, I was joking with the colleagues, "Yeah, Zell am See is the goal, right?" It almost made it. But yeah, of course, I've tried that a few times over the last few years—one-way with a tailwind towards Austria. There are different routes you can fly, but I don't plan them in detail; I decide which route I'd rather fly while I'm up there. But I know the area, I mean, I know it up to the Austrian border, the countries are relatively well-mapped, and then in Austria, I know a bit from the few flights I've already done.
But it's not planned that precisely. But I do notice that if you want to fly triangles, you can't just plan nothing at all, like just flying as far as you can, because then you have to think about where to turn so that it all works out in the end.
Are triangle flights more interesting to you then, because they're perhaps significantly more strategic, or would you say no? I also like flying into the unknown, into the unknown, just heading out somewhere.
Yeah, well, I think triangle flights are harder in terms of flight planning and execution, but personally, I've always really enjoyed one-way flights because then you have new terrain the whole day and it's a bit more of an adventure—you don't know where you'll end up, you don't know how far it'll go. But triangle flights, of course, have the advantage that in the evening you land back around where you live, usually, or you just get back quickly. But in terms of planning and execution, triangles are definitely harder. That's why they also give you more points in XContest, for example.
Was that record flight from Fischau to almost Zell am See your highlight of the year?
It was definitely a super nice flight, yeah, but a highlight? For me, all flights are nice, more or less all of them, but it was definitely one of the highlights, yeah, but I wouldn't say this flight stands out in my personal memory as much as other nice flights anymore.
When you look back and think, "Ah, I remember that," are you actually thinking of entire flights that you have in your head and say, "That was a great flight," or is it always these individual flight moments where you say, "Wow, I made that great decision," or are they the low saves where you say, "Hey, I'm particularly proud of that because I somehow managed to fight my way up from just ten meters above the fir tree in the valley behind"?
Yeah, I think it's more the individual special moments that stick with you—so, like low saves, or good decisions, or really beautiful situations, or seeing some birds or other animals on the ground. That sticks with you more than the flights as a whole. Although, for certain routes, you can almost visualize the paths you've flown—the fast routes—almost like in time-lapse, simply because you've flown them a few times. Yeah, you can imagine how it might go on a great day. But I think the individual ones, they're actually individual memories,
that tend to stick with you.
Is there anything similar in chess? Like, do you remember specific games you played or special situations where you'd say, "Hey, I was in a bind, my opponent had me cornered, and I somehow managed to fight my way out with a great move."
Yeah, yeah, I think that exists. I mean, in chess, you can remember entire games, maybe, but certain critical moments always stick with you. Like, that was the key decision, or some kind of sacrifice that led to a winning attack, or a defensive game where you have to hold out for a long time and then you can launch a counterattack at the end. That kind of stuff stays in your memory, yeah.
What was actually your longest chess game? Do you still remember?
In terms of time? It was probably about seven hours or something. Also seven? I remember, we were in Ticino with the team. We somehow, yeah, I think we started at half past twelve and then finished just before eight. That was the longest game, and then we still had to drive home from Ticino. That was a bit... But yeah, in chess, of course, you have the allotted thinking time, which sets the duration of the game, so it actually sets a maximum duration.
In terms of exertion, if you were to say, seven hours of chess versus seven hours of flying, what would you say—which one leaves you more exhausted at the end?
Yeah, I think especially with paragliding, it's very dependent on the routine and the experience you have. So back then, let's say, during my first seven-hour flight, I was definitely mega, mega exhausted at the end. But nowadays, a seven-hour flight in good conditions, I land and everything is great, right? Because I just have more experience now and the whole thing doesn't take such a toll on me anymore. So yeah, of course, a very, very long flight, ten or eleven hours, is still tiring, but it's not necessarily that exhausting anymore. So depending on the conditions, if it's very turbulent or something, then it becomes a bit more tiring again. But a nice flying day isn't really that exhausting for me anymore.
But back then, it was more exhausting. Chess is always exhausting; it was exhausting from the start and it's still exhausting even as a good player. I'd say as a good player, it's actually still quite exhausting. Because
you have to think even further ahead.
Yeah, because you can translate more of that concentration into action. I mean, you're actually forced to maintain full concentration to get the maximum out of it. But with paragliding, you don't necessarily have to do that all the time. I mean, you have to be focused and make good decisions, but there are many situations where you can actually fly on autopilot for a bit. And that's relatively relaxed.
Now, when it comes to paragliding, there's always the recommendation that if you really want to fly for a long time, you should also take good care of your nutrition in between, drink regularly,
make sure you give your brain some fuel or something like that. Do you do that as a chess player too? Like, where you said every half hour,
I don't know, I need a power gel to get some sugar to my brain or whatever. It burns through so much when I'm thinking about something strategically.
Yeah, well first of all, of course you always have to drink. I do that when flying and when playing chess too. I think that's the most important thing, because if you get dehydrated, your concentration quickly goes downhill.
And food, yeah, I also like to eat something while flying. And when playing chess, I'll actually have a banana or maybe some kind of bar in between. It helps. I do that. It's actually normal. For longer games or longer flights.
Did you play chess competitively in the past or just play it? How far along are you with competition paragliding? Does that appeal to you too?
Yes, it does appeal to me a bit. So far, I have relatively little experience. I've done a few tasks here in Switzerland this year. And actually, for next year, I want to aim to participate a few more times. It's quite exciting. But it's a different challenge than cross-country flying because you're out with a group and you need a bit of getting used to flying in a pack. But otherwise, it's really exciting.
Were you successful in your first attempts?
this year? Yeah, it was actually quite okay. I mean, I didn't win, but that wasn't the goal either. First of all, finding out how the whole thing works with the tasks and so on. So with my first task, or was it the second, I ended up failing the task at the very end. Right at the very end, I... But yeah, you have to practice that too. That's a specific skill for competition flying. I think you can learn that relatively quickly once you've done it a few times. What always held me back from competition flying in the past was actually more that I wanted to fly all day. And not just for the three, four, or five hours, or however long the task lasts.
Was too little for you. The
The craving for flying wasn't satisfied yet. After three hours of task flying, you're already on the ground and have to drink the landing beer or whatever. We were just talking about competition, so this competitive character of chess and what that is like in flying. If you're flying real paraglider competitions now, then you have the other pilots who basically represent your opponents. At the same time, that's maybe a bit different from playing chess. When playing chess, you have a clear opponent who is always playing against you.
In competition flying, it's always such a mix; you do fly against each other, but you also fly together a lot.
Did you see the others as opponents in competition flying? Or did you say it's a nice shared flight and someone just ends up in front at the end?
It's not an opponent like in chess, working against you, but it's about who is faster. But yeah, I did notice, in terms of mindset, that you slide into this competitive mode where you're really trying to win or push as fast as possible, and you let yourself get distracted by the others. Sure, the others are a help because they show you where it climbs and where it doesn't. But they're also a distraction for your own psychological state.
They always say that with competition flying, you learn to fly fast. How good were you at fast flying beforehand? Or did you notice, I really have some catching up to do, I still have some learning to do, the others are really putting the pedal to the metal here. I would never do that with my cross-country flying. And that in the end, you might also learn something from competition flying where you say, I might benefit from that too, if I'm really out in the air for ten hours myself, I might manage two kilometers more in average speed.
Yeah, well, that's actually one of the reasons why it appeals to me to fly in competitions, because you really have to maximize the maximum, so the average speed, as in, it's inevitably the goal. So I don't think that's the only way to learn to fly fast, because in cross-country flying you also try to maximize the average speed. So clearly, you try to maximize the flight distance first and then maximize the average speed. And you do it just for yourself, without the others. Maybe because of that, you're a bit less efficient or not quite at the maximum. And of course, you have to link that with the fact that you're doing it all day
I'd say, you have to be able to endure. Then maybe you can't run as fast as a sprinter, like a marathon runner. But basically, the idea is the same in cross-country flying. Flying fast in cross-country works exactly the same as flying fast in competition. You just have to optimize the thermals, so always catch good thermals and climb efficiently. And then, depending on the conditions, give it the right amount of gas, I'd say.
From this year, where you've flown so much now—I mean, you flew an enormous amount in all the years before, but this year almost 590 hours. What would you say you've learned that was outstanding this year?
I do think I'm still getting significantly better. In the last four years, where I've been flying a lot, just in terms of the general understanding of the weather. That's actually the core of it. And it's not something where you can pinpoint a clear milestone, but rather you just get a better feel or a more accurate idea of how it works. And where it rises and what, yeah. I think that just gets better with more flight hours.
I can already notice that there's a certain leveling off. So the learning curve, so to speak, flattens out, but that's normal. But I think, especially regarding the understanding of the weather, there's still a lot to learn.
If I understood you correctly, you used to play significantly more chess than you do today? Yes. Is it also the case that you lost some of your interest in chess at some point? Or is it simply that paragliding came back into the picture and you just didn't have any more time for chess?
Paragliding was probably the main factor. But I also had, yeah, I had a phase where I wasn't as motivated by chess anymore. So not quite as much as maybe before. But I think it's actually normal for it to be a bit of a wave, so to speak. Like, phases where you're more motivated and phases where you're not as motivated again. Especially with chess like now, you can just really stick with it 365 days a year. With paragliding, you have that automatic built-in off-season every winter where you don't fly as much. And then suddenly you have the desire again in the spring.
Looking at you, there doesn't seem to be much of an off-season in it at all. Could you imagine a moment coming where you say, "Right now, I'm done with paragliding"?
...tired of it? Or at least to the point where you say, it doesn't have to be 500 hours a year anymore, but maybe 150 would be enough for me?
Yeah, I can't really imagine that. But it's also possible that it won't happen that way.
Well, for now, I've never felt like I don't want to fly as much anymore. I mean, I always want to keep flying, but you never know—after 10 years, 20 years, maybe at some point it'll be enough.
If you were to look at Switzerland right now, what do you think would be possible in terms of actual flight time if you only flew there, with the typical weather patterns of the year? Have you already sort of hit the upper limit, or would you say that if you're really determined, you could still manage to hit 1,000 hours?
I think 1,000 hours would probably be possible, but you'd really have to do the longest flight almost every single day. I think you could actually add that up on XContest, taking the longest flight duration from every day of the season, and then see what the total is at the end. That would be an exciting project. But I do think 1,000 is doable. You'd really have to be in the right place, though—for example, you'd have to be in Ticino a lot, because in the Southern Alps you sometimes get good flying weather when it's bad in the Northern Alps, or something like that. Yeah, if you really had 365 days of time, but
I think I'm relatively at the maximum of what I can get out of it with a reasonable amount of effort
can get out of it, I'd say.
Reasonable effort is good; many would probably say the boy is already unreasonable if he flies so much and organizes so much after it. Philipp, a few last questions at the end. Which chess piece is your favorite?
Probably the knight. The knight is a fun piece. Why? I don't know, it's
simply the most unique piece, because he's the only one who can jump, so he can go over other pieces, and he has such a specific pattern to how he moves. That makes the whole thing a bit more exciting geometrically, or there are just more patterns that exist because of the knight—patterns that only exist because of the knight—that's a nice thing. Do you
do you have a favorite move in the air?
So, do you mean in terms of acrobatics or just generally?
No, that can also be the case, in some ways when flying, where you say certain things, like how you approach things, or if you see a landscape like a chessboard, or how you move around there, where you say, I find that particularly elegant, or it always appeals to me to fly around the corner there. The knight jumps then too, makes these weird figures, where you say, I fly, instead of going directly over, I always do the arc, or whatever. That's my special move, you can tell by it, there's Philipp in the air again.
I don't know if there's a special move, but what I think is very elegant about flying is when you can fly straight for a long time and take advantage of the lift, flying through the right spot at the right distance from the terrain; then you don't have to turn as often, or often—well, of course, it depends on the day—but it's very elegant when you can efficiently take advantage of the lift over long distances without actually having to turn. I find that very elegant. But it is, yeah, weather-dependent. Standardly, you always have to turn into thermals and then just keep flying.
That means, technically speaking, you're more of a runner or a queen.
Yes, okay, bishop. Everything straight ahead. Rook, the rook goes straight ahead.
Yes, but the runner can go diagonally, which might actually look nicer than going straight. The queen can do anything; she can go straight and diagonally, and across the board. Philipp, thank you for your great stories here about aviation and chess. Maybe some people will think a bit differently about strategy now, thinking about how they'll plan their next flights and what that might have to do with chess. I'm curious to see how many flight hours you can rack up next year and if maybe, at least next year, that hundred in December will finally fall. I'm curious about that too. But it'll happen eventually. Anyway, have fun with it and may you not lose that great passion for flying so quickly.
Thanks. If
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See you soon. Your Lucian.