We try to be a bit more professional every year, but I mean, the difference between ex-Peer and ex-Alps is that we're just, yeah, we're all volunteers, nobody gets paid, we do it because we're all pilots and because we enjoy it, and I mean, I think you can see from home that it's always a bit more chaotic, and if we had Red Bull or Audi or Charunter as sponsors, that would be something completely different, but yeah, as I said, ex-Peer is a bit more chaotic and a bit more friendly. Potz.
Glitz, the Lu-Glidz podcast.
Stories from the cosmos of paragliding. Today with Judith Mohle or Judith Mohle. And
Lucian Haas at the microphone.
After the Red Bull X-Alps, the X-Peer is probably the most internationally well-known hike-and-fly race in the paragliding scene. For one week, participants have time to get from the Spanish Atlantic coast to the Mediterranean, passing several waypoints along the Pyrenees. Judith Mohle has been participating for several years. However, not as an athlete, but as an official reporter. She follows the teams to report on the current progress of the race via livestream again and again. What she has already experienced and what challenges she and the participants face before the X-Peer race starting on June 23, 2024, Judith tells us in this 136th.
episode of Podz-Glidz. It also covers how she ended up in her job as a high-speed X-Peer reporter in the first place. Judith was herself a successful competitor, initially as a hang glider and later as a paraglider pilot, until a severe flight accident put those ambitions on hold. How she fought her way back into the air, and how she also became known in the scene with a Gleitschirm-Blog and podcast. And what drives her today are further conversation scenes. At this point, I would like to thank everyone who financially supports my work on Podz-Glidz and Lu-Glidz. Without your contributions, I would have had to give up the podcast and blog a long time ago. If you also want these channels to continue, then take a look at the "Support" page on the Gleitschirm-Blog Lu-Glidz.
First of all, I hope you enjoy the show. With Judith Maul.
Judith, you were born in Scotland, you have an Irish passport, as far as I know, you live in Spain, and you speak excellent German. Explain these connections to me.
Well, it's not excellent anymore. I'd say reasonably good. But yeah, my mother is Scottish, my father is Irish. And when I was 13 months old, I moved to Germany. So first to Karlsruhe and then later to Weinheim in the Bergstraße, near Heidelberg. And I did my entire schooling in German. But my mother tongue is English. So we always spoke English at home and then, well, in the street, in school, it was always German. Yes, and now I've lived here for 15 or—well, I bought my house here in Spain 22 years ago. But I live in Catalonia and the people here speak Catalan. So that means if you hear Spanish on the street, it's only tourists.
Can you also speak Catalan?
Yes, I speak five languages.
Oh wow. What's the fifth one?
British Sign Language. I used to be a sign language interpreter.
Yeah, we can't really do a podcast in sign language now. I don't think that would be much fun. What did you study that got you involved with sign language?
Yeah, I didn't enjoy my studies at all. It was a total mistake that I chose those subjects. But I did the degree. I studied theater studies and film and television studies. And I'm a really bad actress. But I had a friend who was deaf during my studies. And I learned through sign language. And then after my studies, I worked with deaf people for years. And I also wrote five books about it, so how to support deaf people and how to communicate with them. And then I started teaching sign languages, for example. And that was my career for years, until I started working with technology.
I organized online conferences. And now I have an accommodation and I'm a translator for German-English and Spanish-English.
You're now somewhere in the Catalan hinterland, in a small place called Castell Follit de la Roca. I know it because I used to go on vacation nearby during my childhood. It's a narrow cliff, it's very picturesque, and the houses stand right on the edge. Do you have a little house like that too, where you could jump out of the window and fall 50 meters?
Yes, it's a volcanic area and our cliff is made of hexagonal columns. And my house, my balcony goes right over the cliff.
Oh, wow. So
That means you can stand on the balcony and look back at the columns. And yes, it's quite famous in Catalonia. Lately, it's also more popular abroad because of Instagram and Facebook. And I often get guests at my accommodation who say, "We saw this on Facebook, we had to come." And yes, I now have guests from Australia, from America, and tomorrow from Germany. You have
Do you also have guests who come to you to go paragliding? I mean, are there any flying areas in the region? Like, can someone come to you and say, wonderful, I just want to explore the area by paragliding?
Yes, I mean, I can see two launch sites from my house. The problem is, there's no infrastructure. It's not like Algodonales, where there are many airfields around and a bar where all the pilots meet. And people here don't usually speak English. Some do, but few. So, getting the info and everything isn't that great. But we have very good flying mountains. We have one that's small, where you can land perfectly. And that's 15 kilometers from Niviuk. Niviuk have their headquarters there because, for that reason, in the winter you fly there six out of seven days. The conditions there are very, very good. And they can do a lot of testing there.
And, but yeah. Yes, I mean, it's pretty good for flying here. Not fantastic, but good. And, as for whether I had guests who came to fly. In 2018, the Xpeer Team America came here. They didn't know that I was the reporter for Xpeer, they just wanted to stay somewhere. And then they heard that I fly paraglider. And they were here for a week. And I drove around with them. And they hiked up the mountains. And I picked them up. And yeah, it was quite fun.
How often do you actually still fly yourself in your area?
A bit more this year. I mean, I'm back in the club again. But unfortunately, I broke my big toe ten days ago. And now I can't fly because, well, I just have to wait four weeks until the toe is straight again.
Did you break it while flying or landing? Or just stepping down a stair?
No, at the gym. I had my very first kickboxing class. I kicked the bag wrong and broke my toe. It's so stupid.
Yeah, you shouldn't do that either. In kickboxing, you can basically only break your toes.
Yes, but thank God it's in the foot where I have very little feeling. But that's another topic that we'll probably talk about later.
You just hinted at it or briefly mentioned it, you were a reporter or are a reporter for the X-Pier. So in 2018 you did that for the first time, as a roving reporter, as they call it. Kind of like what Tarkin Cooper does for the X-Alp, you do it for the X-Pier. Mhm. How did that happen?
Inigo asked me, the meet director called me and asked, do you want to do this? And, um, so we met at the X-Pier... in 2014, because I live quite close to the goal. About 45 minutes away from the goal. And I wanted to do an interview with Kriegel Maurer. At the time, I had a website called The Paraglider. And then I drove there and went into the headquarters. That's in the library in El Puerto de la Selva. And I said, yeah, can I have your... your Wi-Fi code? And Inigo thought, yeah, who is this? And then I sat down and started writing. And he thought, yeah, she's pretty cheeky.
That she just comes over here and says, yeah, I want the Wi-Fi key now. And, yeah, he remembered that. And he saw how many languages I could speak. Because I did my interview with Kriegel in German. And then I spoke to people in Spanish. Yeah, and then six weeks before X-Pier. In 2018, he called me and said, do you want to do this? And, yeah, sure, six weeks before. So it's not much time to prepare. And I had to find an assistant. And then we looked at what we could do with the technology. Like, cameras and everything. Yeah, and then it started. So I... I don't know what I imagined.
But... I mean, I didn't know that I... I mean, interviews and all that, that wasn't a problem. I'd already done 80 podcasts and everything. And I'd done interviews with a lot of people. But for example, when we got to the first turning point, Inigo said, yeah, we're going live now. And I thought, what, live, how? And in the end, I was standing there live in front of the camera for two and a half hours. And I didn't know I even had that capacity. And, yeah, and then on the last day I thought, yeah, okay, I'll go to the awards ceremony and film it. And maybe make a few comments. And then like, oh, no, no. You're the... you had to do the presentation. On stage. And I...
The only shoes I had were pink Crocs.
If you had told me that yesterday, I would have brought real shoes. And, yeah, real clothes and everything. I mean, Inigo can be a bit of a prankster. But we're such good friends nowadays. And, yeah, I've been at every edition since... I mean, 2020 was canceled because of Covid. But otherwise, I'm the roving reporter. But I'll probably do it for the last time this year. I still want to work with the organization, but I think we need some younger blood.
Why? You have experience now. And with experience... I mean, experience is also appealing in certain ways. Yes. So that's something... Yeah. Especially if you've followed so many XPs like you have now. Both from the outside, the first ones and everything else, as well as actually as a participant. So, a reporting participant. You already know many of the teams that keep coming back and stuff like that. From that perspective, you probably also have an easier way in at times. Or you already know what the XP before was? What happened there? You can also jump back in with questions and stuff like that. That adds something too.
Yes, that's true. And you're right that... I mean, the people who are new now have seen that I was the Roaring Reporter in the last edition. And that means they expect me to be there. And they understand my role. If it's someone new, maybe it'll be different. But in the next edition, I'll be 55. And my memory isn't as good as it was 10 or 15 years ago. And... So I think maybe we'll do it so that I... If we can find someone... If we can't find someone, then I'll do it again. But if we can find someone, then I'll probably be their assistant in the next edition. That way, I can bring my experience to it.
But let's see. I mean, that's in two years. We have to finish this edition first. And then we'll see.
Before we dive into the details, maybe you could briefly tell us, what are the X-Pier actually? What's the story? How did it come to be this competition?
So, the first X-Pier was in 2012. And that was because Inigo... So Inigo Redin is the Meet Director, he organizes everything. And he's from Pamplona. So from the Basque Country. Oiska, almost in the Basque Country. And he's a total fan of the Ex-Alps. And they thought, yeah, we have a mountain range too. And we want to do that in our country as well. And the first X-Pier, that was simply coast to coast. So from Hondarribia directly to El Porto de la Selva on the Mediterranean, on the Mediterranean. And it was 400 kilometers. So just a line, in a direct line. And then, there were only Spaniards in this edition.
And the winner was Inigo Gabrinia. Then the next edition, in 2014, was much more international. And Kriegel came. And of course, Kriegel has won every time since then. Every single time. Although last time it was almost... I mean, it was really close last time. Yeah, and by now, the level is much, much higher. We get... And sure, X-Alps is in... Both competitions are every two years. And that often means the participants in the X-Pier then prove to the X-Alps organization that they are good enough. That they have the level. By now, we have many turning points. Our races are becoming increasingly more complicated.
And yes, the level is very, very high nowadays in terms of participants. And I mean, Kriegel says that the X-Pier are harder than the X-Alps. Because the Pyrenees are simply more complicated. The weather is more complicated. There's less infrastructure in the Pyrenees. And he says he finds that harder than the X-Alps.
In the Pyrenees, you don't have these long valleys like in the Alps, where you can say, "Okay, we're riding 100 kilometers down the Pinzgau or up the Goms, around Fiesch or something." Where you can really say you have long stretches with basically just long mountain ranges that you have to ride through. Instead, you have very, very many transverse valleys running north to south or south to north. And then you basically always have to jump over these mountain ranges to slowly get from west to east. What's that like as a roving reporter? It's probably a bit of a nightmare when you have to follow people, right? Because basically, the roads don't really lead from west to east, but often they're more like in, out, in, out.
You always have to ride out of the valleys and then back again, or over some passes. And that's probably incredibly time-consuming.
Yeah, I mean, the roads are a problem. There are only two really big roads that go north-south, and they both go through tunnels, so in Biela, Roviela.
And that's for us, when we have to cross from one side to the other, so from the Spanish side to the French side, yeah, that's always complicated until you reach a tunnel where you can actually cross. For me, the strategy is often to go to a key point, where practically everyone has to pass by, and then I just wait for them to come. And then I stop them and do my interviews. And once enough people have gotten through, I either go back and try to do more interviews with more people, or I move forward, depending on how the race is going. Personally, I don't really like following the first ones because they have so much experience.
They know how to do social media. They know how to get the news out. So Kriegel, Maxim, Standermeier—they get so much attention. Exactly, attention. And the people who are at the back of the race, they've trained just as much. They have just as many fans at home. And they should also have their five minutes in the spotlight. And that's why, for me, it's important that I also interview the people at the back. And that means I cross back and forth and try to meet as many people as possible. Last time, in the 2022 edition, Kriegel finished so fast because that was the first edition where you could fly into the finish.
Normally we have a large space that you don't, around the airport in Empuria Brava, where the skydiving center is, the largest skydiving center in Europe. But last time, because we came from the north, you could fly to the finish line. But we didn't know, so that was a thermal that Kriegel caught. And I was a solo, which is actually sort of in the Pyrenees. And I get a phone call and you have to go to the finish line! Now! Immediately! Kriegel is coming! And we scrambled over there as fast as possible. And I think I arrived an hour before him and just had time to quickly grab a roll and then up to the finish line.
Probably putting on the pink Crocs then.
Yeah, no, no, I threw those pink Crocs away. I never wanted to see them again.
But yeah, no, I mean, everything is with total flexibility. Nothing can normally be planned. And last time we had a lot of rain at the Anfolgen. Kriebel said that in all the Ex-Alps and Ex-Piers he's ever done, or any of the High-and-Fly races he's ever done, he's never had a day where he didn't fly. And last year at the Ex-Pier, everyone ran on the first day. Just ran. It was terrible weather. And yeah, that's just it, we really don't know from the start how we have to organize it. And normally I have an assistant who goes with me, or she went with me last time. And this year we're doing it differently. We have a big caravan and I have an assistant who will try to get the notes and will also be driving.
And I have someone who helps me with editing the videos and with the technology, so hopefully we can publish a bit more this year.
That means you're also becoming more professional.
We try. Yes, we try to be a bit more professional every year. But I mean, the difference between Ex-Pier and Ex-Alps is that we're just, yeah, we're all volunteers. Nobody gets paid. We do it because we're all pilots and because we enjoy it. And I believe, well, we don't have these huge sponsors. We have, and this year we lost sponsors. Unfortunately. That means we have even less money than usual. Yes, we're just pilots and we do it for fun. And I mean, I think you can see that from home, that it's always a bit more chaotic. And, yeah, and that, if we had Red Bull or Audi or Soundtour as sponsors, it would be something completely different.
But, yeah, as I said, Ex-Pier is a bit more chaotic and a bit more friendly. And our rules aren't quite as strict. No, our rules are strict, but they're a bit different from Ex-Alps. And we do that because we want to look out for our participants, but also for the organization. And for example, one rule change we had last time was that our rest period is now from nine to seven. Because before it was ten to six. And I mean, I normally work until twelve or one in the morning and then start again at half past five or six.
We just reached a point where we were completely exhausted. And then we said, okay, no, come on, let's just make it a bit more relaxed. And that's for the participants too. And the participants also say they totally love it. And we don't have any eliminations. Everyone gets the chance to make it to El Potala themselves.
And there are a few other rules that are different from the Ex-Alps. And for us, it's super important that everyone has fun and everyone has the chance to reach the finish line. And everyone is safe.
But the race is still running, not for very long, until everyone reaches the finish.
No, no. It used to be that once the winner arrived, the others had 24 hours. We don't do that anymore. The race is a week long and it ends at—well, it starts on Sunday, this year it starts on Sunday, June 23rd. And the following Saturday at 9 p.m., it's over. Regardless of whether we have people at the finish line or not. That's just the standings they have at 9 p.m. on Saturday.
With the last X4, you've already said it, you could basically always say, yeah, and in the end, Kriegel always wins. Even though it was relatively close last time. Maxime Pinot was in the lead, he caught a better line on a mountain and flew out in front. But then, out there on the way to Porto de la Selva, he did have to land. And Kriegel somehow still made it up the mountain, sprinted up, flew out, and then caught this one thermal and flew over Maxime's head. Otherwise, Maxime probably would have won. But luck of the draw is also part of it. This year, however, Kriegel isn't participating. No. Is that a big loss or is it an opportunity from your point of view?
So he wouldn't have been there in 2020 either. But of course, it was cancelled because of Covid. I mean, obviously, Kriegel is a machine, and it's always exciting to watch him. And you never know, he always brings something to a race. But on the other hand—and I apologize to Kriegel—it would be nice to have a different winner for once. It would be great to see someone else get a chance. And I don't just mean Maxime; Pierre Rémy could have won the last edition too. And when we announced that Kriegel wouldn't be there, we suddenly got many more people,
who wanted to participate. So all of a sudden, yeah, yeah.
They all thought that maybe they'd have a chance if Kiegel wasn't there. That's also interesting, of course. Yeah.
Who do you consider the favorite this year among those participating now?
Maxime for sure. Pierre Rémy for sure. I think Simon Oberhammer too, because I mean, he was a rookie last time. That was his first edition. Pierre Rémy too. The two of them were rookies and both finished. Standa Meier is back again. This is his fourth time doing it. So he knows the Pyrenees very well. I don't know what his fitness is like at the moment. We'll see that then. We just had, and of course, I mean, Maxime
I just had... Yes, you
you still have Pal Takac too
...nominated, I saw.
Yes, yes, we saw that. He got in touch late, but we couldn't say no. And Pal, I think, is also joining. But for example, we have many fewer Spanish participants this year than usual. We don't know why, but fewer people got in touch. We have many French people. But we have one from the Basque Country, Martin, who just set the Hike and Fly record in Spain. He flew 300 kilometers in the Pyrenees. So from a small mountain in the Basque Country to Organia. And that was 300 kilometers. And of course, I mean, the people who live in the Pyrenees naturally always have the advantage. And yeah, one thing about today's route,
in this edition is that Pierre Remy flies past his own home. So he'll be in a part of the Pyrenees that he knows very well.
And Martin too. And there are a few others who will have the home-field advantage. Sure, I mean, we have people who have never flown in the Pyrenees before. We have our first African participant this year from South Africa. That's going to be exciting too. Yes, I mean, the field—sure, there are people who have the home advantage. But I think this year it's going to be a race. Very interesting if we have good weather. We've had a long drought now. And whether that will affect the weather much, I don't know. But I do know that if we don't get much more rain, then when they get to Catalonia, they're really going to have a problem with water.
There are no open wells. So we have to tell them during the briefing that it's going to be a bit different this year, just in terms of the organization.
So, if you're out in the mountains and you lose your supporter or something, you won't find water anywhere?
No. Well, the rivers are almost... I mean, our dams are at less than 15 percent capacity. So, we have to tell them that at every point, if they can, they have to buy water. Because you can't rely on a well being open or... well, we have a huge water problem here in Catalonia.
Yeah, that's obviously a huge logistical problem for something like that too. What's special about this year? Last time—not last year, but the last edition—you had a very special route for the first time. You had an X in the middle of the route where the participants basically had to fly backwards again. Yeah, where the route crossed itself. What surprises do you have planned for this year?
Yeah, well, that X last year was because it was our tenth edition. And of course, the Roman numeral is X. And our sponsor, our main sponsor, is Munich. And that's a sports brand, so they make sportswear. And their logo is an X. And, and clearly, it's the X-Pier. And that's why we did this X. It was very complicated for the participants. Um, this year we're going back to more of a Z. But we're, uh, yeah, they, they're, um, not going to the mountain that Maxime Pinot hates so much, where he always has problems; we're not going there. Instead, we're going to Monte Perdido. That's on, on the edge of the Ordesa National Park.
But they're not allowed to go in there. But we have checkpoints nearby. But the nightmare Inigo gave us today, this year, is that we have a checkpoint in Val de Nuria. And Val de Nuria is in Catalonia. And in the 2018 edition, we had a checkpoint because, no, that was in Canigó. But Maxime had a lot of problems in Pujmal. And Pujmal means in Catalan the bad mountain, the evil mountain. And he had a lot of problems there. Nuria is on the other side. And it's in like a basin. And they have to land there. So they can't fly there, they have to register.
And the only way to get to, well, there's a large monastery there. It's very pretty. But the only way you can get there is by a, by a small train. So you can't drive there by car. That means the supporters, so the official supporters get free train travel up there. But there are only eight or nine a day. In the summer there are more. I think they start around eight in the morning and the last one down is at nine in the evening or so. But of course, if you—I mean, the athletes, they come on foot or by flying. But the supporters really have to organize themselves to get the train and have everything the, what the guys need.
And for me, I have to be there for the first person who arrives. And I say first because we don't have any women this year. I have to be there too. And I've already told my team that as soon as we know someone is arriving, we have to be organized enough to get to the train stop. We have everything in our backpacks. And if we don't manage to get back to our bus, then we have to stay the night there. And we have accommodation there. But of course, if the first person arrives, climbs up the mountain, and then flies, they'll be close enough to the finish line that I might not be able to make it to the finish line. And then it's like, oh, who's going to do the interviews? And yeah, logistically speaking, I mean, it's going to be beautiful.
But when Indigo told me that, I thought, oh, that's why, why are you doing this?
Yeah, and why does he do it? I mean, there are a lot of turning points with the X-Alps. There are sponsors behind that too. So then the respective tourism boards pay some amount X, I don't know how much they have to pay, so they say, okay, that's allowed, and they get a bit of publicity out of it. Do you get any funding from Val de Nuria or something, where they say, wonderful, you can hold it there?
Yes, yes, that's how it is, that they are sponsors, that they are our sponsors. There's also a ski resort there, but of course, we had so little snow this year, I think, and with the climate change. The ski resorts here, they have no future. And for Nuria, it's attractive because they can promote other sports a bit, so they can say, yes, come here in the summer because it's so beautiful. And yeah, I mean, logically it's a good idea, but logistically it's a nightmare. But we'll see. So for me, as I said, Indigo can be a bit of a prankster and surprises me every, every edition.
And for me, it's just... I like solving problems and we'll find a solution. We'll do it, we'll manage it, like Merkel always used to say.
You could also fly down from up there. If you say the lift isn't running anymore, you take your paraglider with you and then just fly down to your bus.
There aren't many landing spots. It's very steep. So I've already hiked down from there many times. That's what I do—I usually go up with the mountain train and then hike down. I've even skied there. But the landing spots aren't that attractive. And also, I mean, even if I fly down, I'm still missing the team. We can't all fly down with all the gear we have, like the cameras and microphones. And we can't fit all of that into the short gear.
So we have to go down with the cable car again. We manage it. We just do it. We have to watch and see how everyone—I mean all the participants—have to think a lot about how to do it, I mean, from before.
Yeah. Tell me a bit about your work with the XB, as a reporter. What does a typical day look like? Not the first day where they've just started, but when you're somewhere in the middle of the race. What do you have to do then?
Yeah, the first day is actually quite interesting for me because I always have to start by doing live interviews and then, well, I start with the...
How do you say that in German? Broadcast.
Transmission. Exactly, thanks. Yes, I start the transmission an hour and a half or an hour before the start and then I always have to talk a bit about the race and so on. And then I do interviews with the participants and then after the start I have to go straight to the first checkpoint. And there I do a live transmission for, depending on the situation, it can be an hour, two hours, three hours. And then it starts. Then I have to head off and find the people. And depending on how the route goes, the first part in the Bastelrand is always difficult. They have to run a lot. And if they're lucky, they can then fly a bit while running uphill. But it's always those small jumps, more than big flights. The big flights actually happen more when they are further east.
Yes, and a normal day for me is, I wake up at six. It can be that I'm on a, well, this year we're traveling with a large motorhome, but before I always just had my little Kangoo. I have a bed in the back of that. And it can be that I'm on a mountain pass or in a valley or maybe at a campsite or, if I'm lucky, in a hotel. That doesn't happen often. Yes, and we start at six. My reporter usually makes me breakfast and I'm already looking at what happened, where everyone is. Of course, they can only start running at seven. That means I have an hour to get my bearings, where we might drive to and who we might be able to meet.
And then we get into the car. And yeah, with live tracking, we try to meet as many people as possible. I do, three or four times a day, I just do a broadcast with news. What happened? What's the weather going to be like today? So, a bit of gossip. Johannes Helleland met a bear last year, or the people who were penalized because they did something or they broke the rules. And yeah, and then I usually do my last news broadcast around five, around nine or ten. And until it's on YouTube and all that.
And until we've found somewhere to stay or we've already organized the accommodation. And then, yeah, around midnight or one in the morning I go to sleep, and at six in the morning the next day, we set off again. Until I get the message from the Indigo saying you have to reach the goal. And then we start. And yeah, and so on. And I mean, the goal is so pretty. It's a very old church in Santa Helena de Rodes. And next to it, there's a monastery, insanely beautiful. And yeah, and then we just wait to see who reaches the goal. And on the last morning, or the morning after, after the goal is finished...
Then so many people fly down as they like and land on the beach in El Portalselva. And the tourists absolutely love that. And then there's the awards ceremony. We have a big stage and then we all eat together, and then everyone goes off and sleeps for three days.
What have you experienced in connection with the three X-Peers you've already done as a roving reporter? What were some of the most curious experiences you had during those?
Good question.
To be honest, there aren't many things that really stand out because it's all just one week where everything happens so fast and it's such a rush. Everything, everything is exciting for me. Thankfully, I haven't encountered a bear yet. But we're always in such beautiful stables and in such beautiful scenery. And it's always nice to meet the people, the participants. And we always have a bit, I mean, we always have water with us and we always have cookies or a bit of chocolate. So that when they stop and do the interview with us, they get some of that too. And yeah, because we're all volunteers and also pilots and such.
The participants have a lot of respect for us. And we naturally have respect for them too. We all end up being like buddies. And they get excited when they see my plane with all the stickers and everything. The atmosphere is just always good. So, okay, last time a few people were penalized or even disqualified at the end because they broke the rules. And of course, for them, it's a bit tragic and also very sad. But the atmosphere is still good. And the celebration at the end too, even though everyone is totally exhausted.
Let's do a bit of a topic jump and talk about your life as a pilot.
Okay. That
That's quite a wide span of time you're covering there. What were the highlights and the low points you experienced during that time?
Yeah, I started kite flying at 96 and flew kites for ten years. And then in 2003, I started paragliding. And when I was a kite flyer, I thought I'd never go paragliding. Those things just fall out of the sky. They aren't safe at all. And at some point, I thought, I haven't seen one collapse for a while now. Maybe it's not that unsafe. And two years after I started paragliding, I forgot about kite flying. The last time I flew a kite was in 2005.
You don't just forget something like that. You said you forgot kite flying. But was it like you were saying paragliding is so much less complicated, that's why I'm doing paragliding now? Or why, basically, did you not forget paragliding? Why did you move on from kite flying?
I had a few accidents.
Accidents with the dragon?
Yes, with the dragon. In 1998, I broke my arm. And at the time, I was a sign language interpreter. And when they did the surgery, there was a 50-50 chance that they would have to cut through my nerves. And then I would never have been able to move my hand again. And of course, that made me really nervous.
Four years later, I dislocated my elbow. That means I have two arms that aren't straight. But I have the movement, I got everything back. That wasn't a problem. But I was always very nervous.
And the landing was always just so...
In the end, when we drove to the mountain, I always thought, I hope it's too windy. Or I hope there isn't enough wind. Or I hope there's a crosswind. And at some point I thought, if you're hoping you can't fly, then what are you doing here? And I had already started paragliding. And I was always a much better paraglider than a kite flyer.
Do you know why? I mean, can you explain that? Or was it just... did you have so much fear with the kite in the end that you were able to fly more freely with the paraglider? I
I think I just had more self-confidence. Not at the beginning. At the beginning, every time I heard something, or when you're flying a kite, you're like... It doesn't move that much. And every time I heard a noise above me, or that the paraglider had moved, I thought, now I'm going to fall out of the sky. It took a few years until I finally had that confidence in my gear. But I started cross-country flying pretty early and then fell completely in love with cross-country flying. And of course, with a kite, that's so impractical.
And with a paraglider, you have everything with you. And back then, we didn't really have cell phones yet. And I always loved just flying somewhere and then walking into the pubs and saying, "Can you tell me where I am?" And they were always like, "Huh? Why don't you know where you are?" "Ah, I flew here." And then they always buy you a beer. And yeah, the adventure of just flying somewhere and then having to get back. And I did a podcast about getting back because sometimes the adventure of getting back is much more interesting than the flight. Yeah, and I mean, in terms of highlights, I then started competition flying and was then involved in the organization of the Women's Opens.
And I had a flight of 123 kilometers in England and then landed in Wales, in Swansea, on the beach or almost on the beach, it was very windy. And we were two kilometers short of the women's record in Great Britain. But I had no more land. So it was like, yeah. Were you annoyed?
Or were you just happy, was it a nice flight? Or were you annoyed, oh, two kilometers?
No. You would have rather been on
out into the sea to say, okay. It
it was so windy, that would have been suicide. But I did it alone. So I wasn't with other people. And the former record holder, who set the male record a few years before, only managed 30 kilometers. And I flew 100 kilometers further than him. That made me happy. So, I was happy that I managed to do this flight myself. I didn't follow anyone. And that year, I was the highest-placed—not pilot, but out of all the pilots, I was the highest-placed ENB pilot in the British league. And for me, women's prizes, there's a long discussion about that, but for me, I mean, I was second in the British Championships in 2012.
But there were only two women. That means I lost.
You don't have to be proud of that. But yeah, being the best pilot of them all, I was proud that I flew more kilometers with my ENB than everyone else in England or the UK. That was something.
That means you were also ambitious and athletic back then.
What was it that put the brakes on that?
Yes, I mean, back then, we had the house here in Spain and we had a house in England. And we were in England for six months of the year in the summer. I did a lot of competition and flew a lot of league. And in the winter, we were in Spain. And we could fly here practically every day. That means for me, I was always used to thermals. I never had to take a break like other British pilots. But in 2012, no, 2013, on March 31st, I had a flight where I started from a mountain that I know very well. I've flown there hundreds and hundreds of times. And I just got lost and didn't make it to the official landing field. And there are so many terraces, like from the buildings.
And I thought, yeah, I can land in small fields. I'm used to that from here. So I had way too much confidence. And I missed the landing field by about a kilometer and thought, I don't want to break my legs. That means I pull them up and then slammed into that terrace with my ass and broke my back. And unfortunately, it wasn't a simple fracture, but I had a spinal cord injury and had a piece of bone in my spinal cord. And I was then brought to the hospital by helicopter. And yeah, and I knew that I had broken my back. And my parents, well, my boyfriend was there with me, but he didn't speak Spanish.
And my parents came, they also live here in Spain and speak Catalan and Spanish. And the doctors then took them out of the room and told them, well, we don't know if she'll walk again. So, whether she'll be paralyzed. And my parents, I will always be grateful to them, they came into the room and said, the doctors say everything will be okay, don't worry. That means, because if they had told me there was a possibility that I wouldn't be able to walk anymore, I would have gone into such a depression, because clearly, I would have had to think, I can't live in my house because I have stairs here. I'd have to think, what do I do if I'm in a wheelchair? But they started with, everything will be fine, no problem.
And the pictures of me in the hospital, I'm smiling the whole time. So, psychologically, they did me such a favor. Yeah, and the surgery to get that piece of bone out of my spine took six hours. I only had women in the surgery. An anesthesiologist, so everyone was a woman. And they did such a good job. I'm so grateful. I never have back pain. I have a lot of metal in my back.
Still.
But always. Because one vertebra, one vertebra is totally destroyed. It's practically gone. It's all held together with metal now. But because I lost my spinal fluid, I now have permanent damage in both of my legs. I have practically no feeling in my dominant foot. It's just always tingling. And I also have no feeling in my right thigh and my butt. That means sometimes I sit down on a chair and then fall off it because I don't know if I'm actually sitting on it properly. It's amusing, guys. And like I said, I told you I broke my toe. And thank God it's in the foot I can't film much of.
Yes. And then I was in rehab for six months so that I could relearn how to walk. So first I was in a wheelchair and then with a,
I don't know how to say it in German, in English it's "simmerframe." And then on crutches. And then, yeah, after six months I was able to walk again. Then eleven months, almost exactly after the accident, I went flying again. And the special thing about that wasn't that I flew, but that I carried my stuff up the mountain. That was it. And yeah, I mean, my running isn't particularly attractive because I'm very flat-footed in my left foot, but I'm running again. On the ninth anniversary of the accident, I ran five kilometers for the first time in my life.
I try to do something special for every anniversary. Just because I can, you know. I had this chance again. When you're at the point where you don't know if you'll ever walk again and then you can. I almost feel an obligation to have adventures, to do things because I still can. If I didn't, you know. And for example, for my fiftieth birthday, I did a new day hike. Over all the mountains I can see from my house. And then I just went off for nine days with a 16-kilo backpack, a tent, everything. Yeah, and I want to do those kinds of things because I had that chance again.
Why did you go back to flying? You could also say, hey, flying almost cost me my ability to walk.
Why did you say you still want to fly? With the risk that's obviously involved, like having metal in your back, and when you land again and maybe have a bit less feeling in one foot, all that stuff where you'd say it might be a bit more accident-prone or the risk is just a bit higher. Why did you say you still want to keep flying?
For me, at the beginning, I mean, my parents also lost half a year of their lives. And for them, they definitely wanted me to never fly again. And I always said,
Once I have to fly again, because I don't want to stop because of this fear of risk. I want to overcome this risk and I'm definitely going to fly one more time and then we'll see. And the first flight, I thought I'd be very nervous, but I wasn't, I wasn't nervous at all. I just unpacked my gear, put on my harness, saw people taking off and I thought, ah, I have to start now, I have to take off now. I didn't think about it at all anymore. I just went out, did three top landings and then we were in the pub and I said, hey, that was completely different than I expected. The second flight, I thought I'd shit my pants. I was so scared on the second flight.
And I mean, I used to fly obsessively, practically every possible day. And sure, nowadays I do it with much less enthusiasm. I mean, but even after 30 years of flying, at some point you just do it with less enjoyment. So I pick my days so that it's fun for me, so that I don't somehow—I don't want really rough thermals and stuff like that, I don't want to have a huge crash and so on. But I still want to fly. So I don't do it as often anymore because I have a place to stay, I practically work every weekend, although I've organized my work a bit differently now so that I can still go flying, because you always have to meet up with people here so that you can drive up together and such.
But I also have other sports now that appeal to me. In rehab, in Barcelona, at the Gutmann Institute, they have this idea that for people in rehab, you have to focus them on what they can do in the future. Not what they've lost. And then they try to get you interested in sports that you might be able to do in the future. For me, that was diving. And I was so afraid of sharks. When I was four or five—we're around the same age—and back then, Jaws was the big movie. And I don't know if you remember the poster. I never saw the movie,
but I do know that poster.
And I was always scared, even in the gravel pit, I was afraid of sharks. And my mother tried to explain to me that there are no sharks in that gravel pit. But she always teased me. Well, and I was in rehab and they said, yes, you can learn to dive here. In the pool at the rehab. And I said, no, that's a waste of time because I'm never going to go diving. And the guy who taught me said, in this pool, I'm the only shark. And as soon as I was underwater and could breathe, that was totally... And since then, I did my first dive in the sea with the rehab. And I forgot to look out for sharks. I was just so fascinated by what was happening there.
And last year I was in South Africa and went shark diving. It wasn't in a cage, but just with sharks, twice. It was great. I love sharks now.
And now, I mean, flying—back then it was just flying. And nowadays I do flying, but other things too. And I think that's a better... my life nowadays is more balanced.
You mentioned it earlier too, that you once had a podcast. It was also about paragliding and you produced 80 episodes, but you stopped in 2019. Actually, at a time when podcasts were just starting to become mainstream. They were slowly becoming en vogue, so that a lot of people were actually listening to or starting to listen to podcasts and then had their podcatchers on their smartphones and all that. Why did you basically stop at the point where it was just getting really interesting?
I mean, I started in 2008, when practically nobody knew what a podcast was. So back then, my job was organizing conferences online. And I often had to learn how different technologies worked. I also started a blog back then. And that blog was also very famous in the English-speaking world.
It was called The Paraglider.
Uh, no, uh, Judith Mole's blog. Oh, I see. So, The Paraglider. The
Paraglider came later. Oh, that came later. Okay.
Yes, yes, much later. That was in 2014, I think. No, no, that was my own blog. And, well, I hate learning things just for the sake of learning. I always need a reason. I had to learn how to make, edit, and record podcasts. And, yeah, I thought, oh, then I'll do a podcast about paragliding and I can learn how that works. But as I said, almost no one does that. And I was—there was one who had a podcast before me in England, but he never edited it. And they were hours long. And then you know, oh, do you want a cup of tea? And I always edited mine very, very much. And they were—I mean, I ended up with millions of downloads.
But in 2019, there were so many people making podcasts. There was a lot of competition, and in the end, I thought—I mean, I still had many ideas for podcasts in my idea book. And I mean, my podcasts were also occasionally about things that nobody talked about. For example, flying while you're pregnant. I mean, that's so niche, right?
Or, yeah. But like I said, I still had a lot of ideas, but in the end, I thought, oh, there's so much competition. And now I've been doing this for over ten years, so I'm just going to let other people have a go.
That means you're always looking for new challenges. A new high to face yourself, so you can say, "This is what I want to grow in."
Yes, and for example, I mean, back in 2018, I started with the Ex-Peer. And I was also on the board of the Cloud-Based Foundation. And you can only do so many things. And yeah, I have other horizons now. And, yeah. And I think 80 was also enough, right? At some point
...at some point. So, 80 episodes of the podcast, you mean. To stay in the picture of your highs, what's another current high you want to set? Maybe even in terms of flying.
There are still countries I'd like to fly to.
Ironically, I've never flown in a German-speaking country. Not in Austria, not in Switzerland, and not in Germany. How
Pardon? And it
there's a mountain flight. Yes, I don't know why either. I've flown in South America, I've been in Africa. No, not in Africa. So I've flown in many countries in Europe. But never in Germany. And there's a flight I've never taken. I'm in a flight school near where I grew up, in Schriesheim. And I'd love to fly there. Over the area I know so well. And yeah, there are a few places or countries where I think, oh no, I'd really love to fly there. So Colombia, I was there for two months and I... I've been to so, so many places, not just Roldanillo, but for two months we just went from flight to flight. I've flown in Ecuador. No, there are already places that appeal to me, just to fly and discover them, from an aviation perspective.
Have you ever flown in the French Alps? Or, since you say the classic Alpine countries in the German-speaking world are Germany, Austria, and Switzerland... well, then there's also basically the German-speaking part, like South Tyrol in Italy, and France isn't German-speaking. But have you flown in the Alps at all? Or not even in the Alps yet?
Anzi, yes, in the French, in the French Alps. Not much, but I worked for NOVA and was always invited to their pilots' meeting, which is always held in either Tyrol or Italy. But it's always exactly at a time when I can't make it. I always have something else going on, and it's also quite far for me to get there from Spain, it's pretty far. And normally it's the week after San Hilaire.
And yeah, if you've driven seven hours round trip to San Hilaire, you don't feel like driving to Tyrol the following weekend. But yeah, it's on the list. Sometime, when I have the time. I hope I can retire in a few years and then I'll have enough time to drive around in my little car and that
to discover. Yeah, you shouldn't put things off so much and always say, "Someday I'll settle down." I know people who say, "Ah, when I retire or something, I'll buy a motorcycle and then I'll ride and all that." And when they finally did settle down or whatever, they felt too old for the motorcycle or something like that. So actually, you should do it now.
Yes, I mean, to be honest, I've done a lot in my life and had many experiences. Last year was the tenth anniversary of my accident and I tried to think about what I could do this year that's special. I mean, I've gone skydiving and done all sorts of things and I couldn't think of anything I'm missing, anything I haven't done yet. So, as for the evening, the only thing I don't want to do is bungee jumping because I'm scared for my eyes, but otherwise, you know,
Rafting, canyoning, diving, I was in South Africa last year in Kruger National Park and did a three-day hike, and normally you're never allowed out of the car, but every night we had hyenas around the tent and we surprised lions, we saw crocodiles. I mean, we swam in the river, not with the crocodiles, but you know, I've had so many experiences like that in my life and, um, so this idea that you have to do it now and can't put it off, I've totally done that over the last ten years. I haven't wasted any time in the last ten years and, yeah, I just have to earn a bit more money until I can take more time for these last few adventurous...
to have experiences. But, but, I have it in my head, so it's already set and I'm going to do it. I mean, I'm a very, very active person and, um, when I set my mind to something, I usually do it.
Judith, thank you for the lovely stories about Xpeer and, um, your personal flight stories with the crash and coming back to life and learning to walk again and all that goes with it. Thank you so much for that, and I wish you especially lots of fun for the Xpeers coming up this year. I'm curious to see who wins in the end, who manages that difficult turnpoint where you can only get there by rail and all the other supporters have to somehow work their way toward it, and I'm curious to see if you manage to get to the finish line from there on time, so that in this case Kriegel doesn't fly there, but maybe one of the other big Pinots, Remis, Oberrauners, Takats, or whoever manages to get through there in the end.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for the invitation. It was really nice chatting with you.
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